Interview with Hollow Hearts

One of the interesting musical happenings of 2019 for Lonesome Highway was discovering Norway’s Hollow Hearts band - special thanks to Somerset musician Jesse Budd (aka Billy Shinbone) for turning us onto them. Plans for a live interview were scuppered when their UK tour booked for June 2020 was, of course, postponed due to Covid19. Undeterred, we conducted a socially (very) distanced interview with Ida Karoline Nordgård - in another instalment of our ongoing exploration of the Nordicana music scene.

In our review of the latest album, PETER, Lonesome Highway waxed lyrical about Hollow Hearts’ ‘distinct signature sound, marked by lushly layered vocals, skilfully wrought catchy melodies and gothic undertones’. Their website describes them as folk/roots/Americana. 

We don’t like to think of our music as a specific genre, Ida Karoline explains. Each one of us has quite different influences from jazz, funk, soul, country, blues, rock and folk. Our common influences are bands like Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, Bigbang (a Norwegian band), Bon Iver, The Band etc.

Their base is Tromsø, a city of over 70,000 located in the far north of Norway. It’s probably musically best known outside of the country as the home of Royksopp and a thriving techno scene. What is the overall music scene like there? 

Tromsø is a very vibrant city, with lots of gigs every week, in many different genres. I guess the most important venue is a club called the Bastard Bar, where we played our debut concert. It’s a very cool place, hosting many both smaller and bigger acts. We also have a lot of nice festivals in town, like Buktafestivalen, Rakettnatt, and Tromsø Jazz Festival, which we are booked to play this August.

Fingers crossed that this will go head as planned.

We wondered how the writing process works in the band? 

Sometimes we all start together, writing from scratch. At other times one of us has an idea and we start from there. Ida Helene is the wordsmith in the band, so she writes the lyrics, but we all contribute to the story-making. It often starts off with basic acoustic instruments and vocals, and from there we work on further production, as a collective. Our main band instruments are vocals, guitars, bass and drums - but we like to experiment with other instruments also, depending on what we want to do with a song.

Even on a brief listen to any Hollow Hearts track, it is clear that the standard of musicianship and production is unusually high. The reasons for this become obvious when the origins of the band are discovered.

Myself (bass), Mikael Pedersen Jacobsen (drums, mandolin) and Christoffer Nicolai Mathisen (pedal steel, guitars) were all in the same degree class in Tromsø Music Conservatory, while the other Ida, Ida Helene Løvheim (guitar, accordion) was a few years behind us. We discovered that we liked each other’s way of playing, and enjoyed each other’s company. After a few beers together, the band was formed!

The band’s songs are all written in English. Why did they decide to do this?

 I think it’s about 50:50 whether bands in Norway chose to write in either our native tongue, or in English. We just did it because we wanted to - it is never our goal to be commercial, but of course it helps when we reach out to audiences outside of our country.

Lyrically, the influence of the sea and the weather are very evident in the songs on the last album, PETER. Does the Norwegian folk tradition influence their work on a conscious level?

Our lyrics and stories are inspired by our way of living in Northern Norway, both modern living and older folk traditions. And the weather ..... there’s just something about all this weather!

We have a lot of old sagas in our region, and one of them - the Saga of Birte & Benjamin - became a song on our 2019 mini album TRAVELLING SONGS.

So it seems that Nordicana, like Americana, has to have a murder ballad (as mentioned above) thrown in there somewhere!

Like most bands the world over, the members combine day jobs as music teachers and record store employees, to enable them to continue to fund their involvement in Hollow Hearts and other music projects. However, they are also fortunate to have a very supportive government when it comes to the Arts, and Arts Council Norway has helped them (and other artists like them)  financially with touring and recording costs.

PETER was a concept album of sorts, the closing chapter of the story of Annabelle and Peter (which started on their 2018 debut album ANNABELLE). So, are there any plans yet for the next album? 

We were almost sad when we finished that chapter, but now we’re keeping our minds open while writing a lot of new songs and we’re planning to get into the studio this autumn.

Apart from their native country, have they played anywhere else?

Last year we went on tour to Germany and Switzerland. It was absolutely amazing. The audiences were great and we got so much love from the promoters and everyone we met.

We’ll be keeping an eye out for our first opportunity to catch Hollow Hearts live. We suspect they will live up to their reputation for exciting stage shows. Come to think of it ... who’s up for a trip to Norway once travel restrictions allow?

Interview by Eilís Boland

Pete Gow – The Second Coming

London-based Pete Gow released his solo album HERE THERE’S NO SIRENS in April 2019. Produced by Joe Bennett (St. Etienne, Dreaming Spires), it was quite a departure from his signature sound with highly regarded UK Americana band Case Hardin, who recorded four albums between 2011 and 2016. The addition of orchestration on the tracks propel the sound to an altogether higher level. It was a brave move that has paid off deservedly and spectacularly. Recording the album at that point of his career might have seemed like a musical suicide mission, departing from his core sound. 

‘To a certain extent each new record is a potential musical suicide mission. Within the tiny orbit of Case Hardin, if you loved our album ‘PM’, there’s a chance you wouldn’t get along with COLOURS SIMPLE but that is where you have to sit back and trust your audience. By the same token, every time you write a song, it’s a personal exorcism of sorts.’

The album has been particularly well received but I get the impression that it has not reached anything like the audience that will eventually cherish it. 

‘Well, a ‘slow- burn future classic’ status would certainly be nice, but yes, we are more than happy with the audience who are cherishing it right now. It makes our job so much harder next time around, but that’s a fantastic problem to have. None of this would have been possible without the unswerving support we have received from Clubhouse Records, who I have been with since the second Case Hardin record, Del Day from Ark PR and more recently SRD.’

Recorded swiftly under producer Joe Bennett’s trusted eyes and ears, the notion of populating the songs with strings was Gow’s intention from the outset. 

‘Yes. The idea came from the very first phone call and it was the main reason I chose to call Joe; I knew he could bring that skill-set to the project. The four songs I already had were written for a Case Hardin album that never happened, so internally I was hearing them one way and then got really excited about the potential once Joe got to work. The remaining tracks were all written once Joe had signed up, so I could really work on giving him a platform. Album opener One Last One- Night Stand is a perfect example of this... that big instrumental section in the middle was written very specifically to give Joe room to roam … similarly the outro to Pretty Blue Flower. That song was written before the sessions, but the final section was written in the studio, knowing it would close out the record.’ 

The album was mastered by Tony Poole who has previously worked with Steeleye Span, Maddy Prior, The Men They Couldn’t Hang, Pentangle and Danny & The Champions Of The World. Poole was also a founding member of the 1970’s rock band Starry Eyed And Laughing and more recently joined forces with Danny Wilson and Robin Bennett to form Bennett, Wilson, Poole. 

‘Tony most definitely added to the final product. Mastering is the final layer of polish on any track and helps pull out those tiny musical nuances, especially with complex string arrangements. Tony masters pretty much all the albums Joe produces, so there is an intrinsic understanding between them as to what the final product should be.’ 

The songs that make up the album were written with this venture in mind together with some previously written for Case Hardin.

 ‘For this album it was about 50/50 split (a few of the Case Hardin songs went on to our follow up album THE FRAGILE LINE and a couple will even be revisited for the upcoming record that we have just started recording). When I was choosing the songs for the Sirens recording sessions, it wasn’t so much I felt they were better suited to a solo project, it was more picking songs I thought would work for where we hoped to take the production on Sirens. I had, for instance, written a song like Mikaela for the Case Hardin album. I never thought it wouldn’t fit on a band record, but when pulling material for the solo project, it shone out to me as perfect, both in tone and subject matter.’ 

A snippet of The Pogues’ Rainy Night In Soho features at the tail end of the title track. It’s a deeply evocative inclusion possibly mirroring the emotional state of mind of the composer at the time of writing the song.

‘Shane MacGowan has been mirroring any state – emotional, or otherwise - I have found myself in since I first heard RUM, SODOMY & THE LASH in 1985. He is one of a couple of artists that I fully submerged myself in both when I first heard them, then at various points along the way. That kind of obsessive love of a song and its composer felt like the kind of thing the young woman at the centre of my song would feel and link it internally to her own experiences.’

One of the album highlights is the song titled Strip For Me. It was a brave song to write with lyrics that could invite a number of interpretations. I wondered if it was a deliberate challenging the listener given the lyrics. 

‘The challenge for me came in putting it out as a song without caveats, or explainers: there are ways around that. On a record you can go back and listen to the song again and study the lyrics, and in concert you can set the song up before a performance. 

‘When I was pulling it together, I didn’t really see it as a gauntlet being laid down. I wasn’t pushing buttons, or thinking about what kind of a reaction it might generate. Simply because at that stage I wasn’t writing for anyone but me. 

‘Anyone who came to my songs before this album, that kind of approach – taking an ironic distance from a tough subject, or character, that then allows you to write in the first person – is something I have done on a couple of occasions previously as it gives a lyric so much more power, but it also runs the risk of being misunderstood. Again, you have to go with your instinct and trust your audience. There were a couple of additional verses to Strip For Me that would have made the song less ambiguous, but you have to make decisions on making the best possible song you can, and that doesn’t always align itself with fully explaining yourself for the benefit of the listener.’

The album works spectacularly well in the live setting with Pete accompanied by The Siren Strings on stage.  Given the logistics of performing as a nine-piece assembly, they have been astute in their options to tour and perform. 

‘It doesn’t compromise touring options; it redefines what touring looks like. No- one on our circuit is, or really has, toured this kind of show before… it’s special. As we can’t go out and play 75 shows a year with it, the concerts themselves become special. Joe has been very careful as to how we curate the live shows, particularly where we play. So, we have done churches and theatres and resisted the temptation to reduce the numbers on stage, or perform without strings which would undoubtedly mean we get to go out and play more gigs, but at what overall cost?’ 

One of the festivals chosen to perform was The AMA UK Fest in Hackney. The occasion was a delight, goose bumps inducing times. After showcasing your own material, the band launched into a hair-raising delivery of Warren Zevon’s Lawyers, Guns & Money. An inspired set closer, the inclusion of a well-chosen cover version has become part of their setlist.

‘I can’t really recall where the idea of putting a cover into the Siren Strings show originally came from (we performed Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds Into My Arms at the Here There’s No Sirens’ album launch). I’m a huge Zevon fan and each night I hear that riff and counter riff in Lawyers, Guns & Money being performed by the Siren Strings, it sucks the breath out of my chest. I can only imagine what it does to an audience member hearing it for the first time?’ 

The artwork by Veronica Casey on the album is particularly dramatic, capturing the darkness and mystique of the project. It most certainly does the album justice by matching the material with equally striking imagery. 

‘Veronica’s portrait of me was perfect for this project, in every way and its design has been the template for all the promotion, singles artwork etc. so it’s an honour to bring her work to the attention of a new audience, she truly deserves it. This entire project has been put through the filter of making it a separate entity to Case Hardin. Remember, even four months after it came out, Case Hardin was still a going concern, so outside of the actual music there were a couple of more subtle, personal touchstone. No Case Hardin record has, or ever would be, titled after one of the songs on the record and no Case Hardin cover would ever feature the bands image. Like I say, pretty subtle, but it meant a lot to me at the time.’ 

Given the distinctiveness of the album it’s difficult to imagine a HERE THERE’S NO SIRENS Part 2. It’s also a project that is unlikely to be bettered or equalled for that matter. 

‘Within a wider musical and personal context HERE THERE’S NO SIRENS is unique, a one- off venture. The confluence of good luck in bad times, hard work, sadness and fun that pulled the eight songs out of me, through Joe and Farm Music Studios then out onto that album simply can’t be repeated. Why even try? Just move on to trying to find the next bolt of lightning and hope there’s another bottle nearby!’ 

Gow is one of quite a number of UK artists, loosely categorised in the Americana cubbyhole, that hardly receive the exposure and recognition their talents deserve. His previous band Case Hardin alongside Peter Bruntnell, Danny & The Champions Of The World, William The Conqueror, The Hanging Stars, My Darling Clementine, Ags Connolly, Thea Gilmore also come to mind. They share the distinction of artists that would have been household names in the music industry in different times.  

‘Wherever you are in the world there is an attraction to the seemingly foreign and exotic, what Billy Connolly calls ‘windswept & interesting’. Just look at how Brits are treated in the US? Doug Sahm pretty much pretended he was from England (Sir Douglas!!) to give his band an edge in Texas, because he thought it would improve his chances of making it. It took The Rolling Stones to persuade Americans that their blues musicians should be revered and respected.

‘Record companies funded touring for just about everyone in the decades before the 90s. Not many bands, or artists, toward the lower reaches of the food chain, like myself, who didn’t sign up to a crippling deal with a label could afford to do it themselves. Pretty much everyone these days funds their own tours, so for acts like us economics make the kind of relentless touring required to build up a fan base anywhere harder than it used to be. And who can even begin to predict how much more difficult touring will be in a post-Brexit, post COVID-19 world?’

We await with interest the next musical direction and journey that Pete Gow decides to undertake.

‘I was fortunate to be surrounded by music from the very beginning. My Father and my Grandfather on my Mother’s side were both performing musicians in their respective local circuits, around Elgin in Morayshire, where I’m from, so I was exposed to a pretty eclectic catalogue of music before I hit puberty. But my ‘moment’ came around 1983/ 84 when I first heard Dylan’s Desolation Row. It hit me in a way I had not been hit up until that point. I had never picked up a guitar, had no aspiration to write a song, but I knew then – even if I never did pick up that guitar or pen - that music would be the most important thing in my life from that point, and that song still hits me like that every time I hear it.’

Interview by Declan Culliton

A Conversation with Norma MacDonald

Halifax, Nova Scotia resident Norma MacDonald’s fifth album, OLD FUTURE has just recently been released. It’s a recording that has made quite an impact on us at Lonesome Highway and will most certainly feature in our ‘Best of 2020’ listings at year end. 

It enters the world in extraordinary times both globally and locally for the singer/songwriter who was born and raised on Cape Breton, a small island about four hours’ drive from her current home. The closing song on the album opens with the words: ‘Some days you can’t ever lose, some days you can’t see the green for the blues.’ Given these uncertain times I wondered what sort of day it was in Halifax when I spoke with Norma last week. 

‘’That’s a tough question to answer right now. On top of the global COVID-19 pandemic that is keeping people isolated in their homes, Nova Scotia also experienced the worst mass shooting in Canadian history this past weekend. People are hurting and scared, and confused as to how this could happen in our beautiful, largely-peaceful little part of the world. But ... the sun is out right now and it’s a lovely spring morning. We’re trying to mourn but keep our heads up at the same time.

I wrote Some Days as kind of a country-song mindfulness activity; trying to reconcile myself with the idea that whatever happens, good or bad, that things will pass and then the next thing will happen, and everything just continues to flow along. I’m trying to remind myself of that right now.’’

OLD FUTURE features ten tracks and so much about the album, from the songs to the packaging and photography, appears to be looking back at the classic country sounds of the 1960’s and 1970’s. 

‘’A couple of years ago I was asked by a theatre company in Nova Scotia called Ships Company Theatre to produce a tribute show to the great ladies of classic country music. I did some deep digging through repertoires of female country artists, mostly from the 60s and 70s, and completely fell in love. I wrote a lot of the songs from OLD FUTURE during the time I was researching music for that show. Some of it must have seeped in. Incidentally, I was also listening to a lot of Roy Orbison and 60s girl groups, like The Ronettes, which really influenced the production on I Already Have a Shadow. I wasn’t really intending for the entire project to sound so retro, but once we started production the arrangements just naturally took on that shape. It was also my first-time recording bed tracks to tape as opposed to digital, so I feel that gives the album a warmer, vintage sound.’’ 

Like the work of many artists, the writing on the album is a combination of songs based on both personal experiences and in the third person. The themes range from mortality to regret and passion, with every word meticulously enunciated in what I would describe as classic country vocal delivery. The song Your Wedding Day is particularly striking: it is classic, old school country. I could imagine quite a number of established Nashville artists covering it. A pension song perhaps, with a bit of luck?

‘’I would love that. Could you send it around for me? I definitely feel that of all the songs I’ve written this one lends itself best to being covered by other artists. And it even has a good classic country key change. Your Wedding Day is an amalgam of several (yes, several) situations in which ex-boyfriends got married shortly after we broke up. It’s meant to be pretty tongue in cheek. All my writing tends to be a bit of both. Some songs on OLD FUTURE are intensely personal and others not so much. The opening track, Temperamental Year, is about trying to process the death of my dad in 2015 and the pain but inevitability of losing people you love. Other songs like Slow Down Marie were written just because a stream of words flowed out that worked well with the melody and luckily they weren’t complete nonsense.’’

The track Golden Age reads very much like a song for the days that we face currently. The lyrics are striking and evocative and could be regarded by the listener as relating to lost love or yearning for the more uncomplicated days of yesteryear, or indeed more recent times.

 ‘’The process of writing Golden Age actually went on for several years. I had the melody and chord progression recorded as a voice memo in my phone probably as long ago as 2013. I really loved the mood of those chords but struggled with finding the right lyrics (although the word “Golden” was always in the title for some reason). In April of 2019, I was rushing to finish two last songs for Old Future before heading back down to Dale’s (Murray) studio. I was frantically scrolling through ideas to see what I could try to flesh out. I had been thinking about how a couple of my close friends had recently moved away from Halifax and how much I missed them, and the lightness and ease that they brought into my life. I came across the voice memo for what would become Golden Age and managed to write it all in just about an hour. But yes, I think a lot of us are yearning for the golden age of just a couple of months ago right now. Everything feels so far removed from where we were.’’

 Naming the album DEATH BY NOSTALGIA, a reference that appears in the song Some Days,was aconsideration but one that was eventually overruled. 

‘’Ha. Because people kept telling me they thought it was morbid. I thought it was funny. And the sound and lyrical content of the album are so nostalgic. I do feel like OLD FUTURE captures the essence of the album pretty well, too, though.’’

 It was co-produced with Dale Murray, whom Norma has worked with previously. The song One Man Band could have been directed at him, given the number of instruments he plays on the album. 

‘’Dale has played guitar and pedal steel on several of my albums but we hadn’t worked together as co-producers before this.  I’m a huge fan of both his playing and production so it seemed an obvious and natural choice. He had a ton of great ideas but was always respectful of what I was bringing to the table production-wise as well. The whole process seemed so incredibly easy and fun.’’

Together with her solo work, she is also a member of the folk-rock band Bend the River, a seven-piece Halifax collective covering a range of sounds that include pop, soul and folk. 

‘’My friend Ronok Sarkar is the principal songwriter for Bend the River, although the whole band contributes to the arrangements. I mostly sing backing vocals but take lead on a few songs. Being a backing singer is the best gig in the world, nothing to carry. I LOVE being a member of that band. If you haven’t checked out any music yet, you should track it down.’’

Alongside her musical callings she also enjoys a parallel career as an ER nurse. It’s an interesting dual occupation and one that appears to comfortably suit her character. ‘

“I feel like I have two very distinct sides of my brain that both need attention. I’ve played music full time in the past and it didn’t make me happy. Just as I wouldn’t be happy if I were working as a nurse and didn’t get to write and play music. My life feels very full and satisfying having both careers.’’

The current Coronavirus has imposed immense pressure, both financial and mental, on the majority of musicians, with the exception of the household names and commercially successful acts. Many artists have resorted to live streams by way of continuity. It’s a platform, isn’t it, that most likely will be explored more in the future as a means of communication when things return to some degree of normality?

‘’I do think that artists will continue to use online performances more frequently after the pandemic is over. Touring is expensive and exhausting. If you can reach people from your own living room and create some connection, why wouldn’t you? But on the other side of the argument, playing in front of a live audience - to see people’s faces and hear applause when you finish a song - is far more rewarding than seeing some words and emojis appear on a screen. I feel online platforms will be used more frequently as an income adjunct, but I don’t think this will ever replace the magic of an actual onstage performance.’’

Given Norma’s surname, the issue of her Celtic roots was of interest to me. She explained.

‘‘My family is originally from Scotland but has been in Cape Breton for generations. My brother Peter is a huge genealogy buff, so most of the things I know about our family’s roots are through him (and he could tell you about them for hours. In my early 20s I played in a Celtic pub band called Highland Heights that toured and recorded for several years. We played a lot of traditional Irish and Scottish folk songs so I used to be fairly well versed in that music, but admittedly haven’t been playing much of that style over the last decade. As a bit of a non-sequitur, I also remember being obsessed with Mary Black during that time. A friend of mine had a bootleg recording of her singing at the Royal Albert Hall that he made on a dictaphone and I played it 8 million times. Her voice was just magic, even on that crappy pocket recording.’’

A visit to perform in Ireland did take place some years ago and hopefully she will return in the future. In the meantime, she closes the conversation with this fond memory.

‘‘I grew up in Cape Breton, NS and many things about Ireland reminded me of home; the landscape, the people, the music. This memory may not seem like a big deal but I remember having the day off in Galway and I brought a book to the pub in the afternoon to read for a while. I had a lovely, hilarious conversation with the people next to me and when they left, I had another great conversation with the people who took their seats. Before I knew it, it was the evening and I had spent the entire afternoon chatting with a dozen complete strangers but felt so warm and welcome. I’m really hoping to get back there to play some time in the near future.’’ 

Interview by Declan Culliton

Kelsey Waldon Interview

 A large signboard was erected last year in Ballard County, Kentucky. It reads ‘Monkey’s Eyebrow Home of Kelsey Waldon.’ No mean accolade for a State that in the past has honoured artists such as Loretta Lynn, Bill Munroe, Dwight Yoakam, Crystal Gayle, Keith Whitley and Tom T. Hall in a similar manner. It’s certainly something to be proud about.

‘Yes, very proud, that’s my hometown. Kentucky is very proud of all the talent that comes out of there. I grew up seeing signs like that everywhere around my home State. They’re just very proud people and they like to recognise their own. I’ve been doing this for a little while now and it feels nice to see that.’ 

I’m sitting with Kelsey in the downstairs bar at Whelan’s in Dublin. It’s late February and she is due to perform at the venue together with Sean McConnell and Garrison Starr. She is dressed in denim jeans and jacket and the customary cowgirl boots, which is in contrast to the glitzy nudie suit that she wore when I saw her on stage at 3rd & Lindsley at Americana Fest last September in Nashville.

‘That suit is at the dry cleaners’she informs me, laughing. ‘This is strictly a denim tour, no room in the suitcase for that suit,’ she adds. Her Kentucky drawl is fetching, almost musical, the spoken words identical to the natural and unfiltered accent that feature on her albums.

That appearance at Americana Fest was on the same bill as Tanya Tucker, playing to a full house. Other shows that week included a Jam In A Van session and guesting with J.P.Harris on his annual Sunday Morning Coming Down event. ‘We were everywhere at Americana last year, played almost every night and had that showcase on the same bill as Tanya Tucker. Awesome.’ 

It hasn’t been anything like an overnight success for Kelsey. She left her hometown in rural Kentucky as a teenager for the bright lights of Nashville in pursuit of fame and fortune. Unfortunately, her initial move did not go to plan and she returned to Kentucky. Older and somewhat wiser, her second journey to Music City was motivated by the opportunity to enrol at Belmont University. She subsequently majored in song writing and the business end of the music industry, together with working in bars and playing gigs wherever and whenever the opportunity presented itself.

‘That was a while back. The first time was difficult, I was working jobs and didn’t have much time to play anywhere and didn’t know anybody in Nashville at all. I was only 19 and too young to get work in bars, I played where they let me play. The second time around I just got into the right circles you know, met some of the right friends and progressed to playing in bars as I was old enough then to go to these places. I met the friends I needed to meet the second time there.’

Her career has progressed steadily and methodically ever since. She released her debut album THE GOLDMINE in 2014 and followed it with the excellent I’VE GOT A WAY  two years later. The title of that album was a clear statement of intent. The no-holds-barred songs on it dealt with personal issues confronting her at that time. 

WHITE NOISE/WHITE LINES, released last year, is equally intimate, an anthology of tales often inspired by her home state. Like its predecessors, it addresses her inner feelings and issues such as the contradictions encountered in her childhood, growing up in Kentucky and putting a bad relationship firmly behind her. 

‘Half of the songs were written stuck in a cabin back home in Kentucky where I grew up and half of them were written in Nashville. Any record I’ve made, I don’t ever sit down and think it’s going to be this or that. They’re the songs that define me. I realised that I was honestly coming into my own with the new album. It’s me finding a serious sense of myself and making sense of the world around me too you know. Singing and song writing for me is just that. The songs all come in different ways. I can’t write when I’m on the road, touring for me is hard. I mightn’t write a song for two months and I’ll sit down when I get home from touring and I’ll be somewhere for a week and maybe write five songs, they just pour out of me. I think it does get harder to write as you get older and busier. It takes more discipline but the songs are always there, the ideas are always there, you just have to sit down and write it.’ 

WHITE NOISE/WHITE LINES was released on John Prine’s Oh Boy record label to favourable reviews both in the U.S.A and Europe. She can boast to be the first artist to be signed to that label for eighteen years. The album was recorded and produced in Nashville by Dan Knobler, who had previously worked with Kelsey’s close friends Erin Rae and Caroline Spence. With her own band members on the recording, Knobler creates a potent and raw sound, very much in keeping with her live performances. Acclaimed in many quarters for possessing one of the most distinctive and unique country voices – “One of the more authentic country voices I've heard in a long time” said John Prine – Oh Boy liked what they heard and supported the album.

‘I’d written it and we sat on it for a while until the timing was right. Things had to build up, we finally executed everything and got it rolling. John (Prine) and Fiona (Whelan) were supposedly big fans of the record I put out independently, I’VE GOT A WAY. Oh Boy had heard that record and I had known some of the people there for quite a while and they were always in my corner. I don’t think they were ready to sign another act back then and like I said, the timing was right with the new album. I was patient, I waited for the right moment and I got it.’

Kelsey is a member of a thriving community of female artists in Nashville that includes Margo Price, who like Kelsey, was no overnight success. Following numerous record label rejections, she struck the jackpot when Jack White’s Third Man Records released her debut album MIDWEST FARMER’S DAUGHTER, a career launching break. Is Kelsey’s backstory somewhat similar?

‘Margo and I are great friends, she was one of my first friends in Nashville. We’ve all had different paths, our journeys are seldom the same. No one tells you ‘here is how it’s going to happen.’ My peers just happen to be women but honestly the whole scene in Nashville is very supportive, I think It’s a myth that women are cut throat, there is room for all of us, men and women, especially in the country realms. Michaela Anne, Erin Rae and Caroline Spence are also all close friends of mine: we have a group text and talk most nearly every day when we’re on the road. That said, I’ve had a great team for a long time with plenty of muscle and having someone like John (Prine) endorse the album is really great for me. That worked a lot for me overseas, it got me press in the U.K. and Europe. I’m the same person that I’ve always been but I’m on a train right now and it’s gonna keep rolling and keep me busy until the end of the year.’

With Country Radio Stations for the best part ignoring female artists like Kelsey and her peers, gaining exposure can be challenging. It’s an issue that she’s quite realistic about.

‘Radio play should be based on the quality, not gender. I think that’s the most frustrating thing. There truly is no obvious argument, no reason at all why more women shouldn’t get played. It is unfair, back in the ‘90s and before, all the stars on Country Music Radio were women. I don’t think country radio really cares about quality anyway.’

Does Country Music Radio even care about music, or more likely just selling advertising? 

‘Yeh, (laughs) I don’t think I’m one of those artists that really needs that airplay anyway. We get played on stations like Americana Radio and Independent Radio. Certain artists need the radio others don’t, it’s not needed all the time.’ 

The attendance at this evening’s show at Whelan’s is likely to be considerably less than the numbers Kelsey has become accustomed to. In recent years she has performed at The Grand Ole Opry, The Ryman and sharing stages with John Prine, Jamey Johnson and Willie Nelson to name but a few.

‘That’s the name of the game. I think people on the outside often feel that when you’re an artist and get signed to a label that you’ve got it made. It’s not like that. One day you’re playing The Grand Ole Opry or the Ryman, or your selling out somewhere, and the next week you might come to Dublin and there’s three people there.  I say ‘we just play for whoever shows up’. It’s like starting all over again playing Ireland, you might be the only one here tonight (laughs).’

Since this interview, of course, Kelsey’s touring plans have had to be put on hold and the much-loved John Prine passed away on April 7 from Covid-19. 

She is a focused, talented and discerning individual who has overcome the odds previously – and when things get back to some degree of normality, there is no doubt Kelsey has the drive and talent to continue her climb up that industry ladder.

Interview by Declan Culliton

Lone Bellow Interview

This interview takes place in the midst of the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, with the world on shutdown and everybody living under the spectre of health concerns for immediate family and the local communities. Zach Williams, lead vocalist, key songwriter and founder of the band, took time to answer our questions and to talk about their terrific new release, HALF MOON LIGHT. 

Like many other musicians, you have had to cancel all tour plans in light of the recent virus pandemic. Where were you when you took the decision to come off the road?

I was in Oregon on a travel day headed to play the The Fillmore in San Fran. 

There is an old Chinese curse (or English proverb), ‘May you live in interesting times.’ This World event is like a recurring nightmare, every morning you wake up and realise this is not a Sci-Fi movie. Are the band all back in Nashville or located elsewhere with family?

We’re home in Nashville with our families.

Your latest album has been gaining very positive reviews across all music media platforms. You must be very proud of the work and how it has been received?

Yes, we are happy to hear that people have taken the time to listen to this record. There’s a lot of layers sonically and thematically and I’m so glad it is resonating with people.

The writing comes from a very personal place with themes of Death, Family and Friendship, plus a strong message to celebrate life. In many ways it’s a barometer for the way in which people across the globe are coming together during this crisis?

It has been interesting to see how the themes of these songs are lining up with the current situation the world is in right now. “if yesterday is to heavy put it down” - “here we are now lonely together, brothers and sisters did we want something better, tell me how am I going to find you when the dust settles” - “wake me up from this fever dream” - “count on me if I can count on you.”. Just as a few examples.

The pain of loss runs through the songs and the recent deaths of two Grandparents and Brian’s Father, frame the overall message that time is the ultimate conqueror and we should allow happiness and light into our everyday lives?

We wanted to tell other people’s stories in this record. Sometimes the stories refer to getting through something hard, sometimes it’s just talking about the beauty of walking down a NYC side walk after a long hang with your friends. We wanted to shine light on the wonder out there. The unseen. We also wanted to celebrate a few lives worth celebrating. I personally don’t see death as a theme of this record. It’s just a part of life and a part of our stories in general … But we didn’t want to hide from it. I believe the only way to celebrate or reflect on anything is to see the full picture.

You also tackle difficult subjects such as the terrible experience suffered by Kanene’s Mother as a young girl and also the suicide of Scott Hutchison (founder of Frightened Rabbit) who was a close friend of the band and Aaron Dessner, who produced the album. Was it a difficult call to have these personally sensitive areas laid bare for strangers to dissect?

I can’t speak for Kanene, but I know she spoke with her mom about the song before we released it. I think ultimately, we wanted to be doing whatever we could to empower others. We were trying to put ourselves in other’s shoes.  

Your career has gained so much forward momentum in recent years. Was there a lightbulb moment where you all looked at each other and realised, ‘This is happening?’

The most recent time this happened was in LA at The Troubadour. We started the set with our first song from our new record HALF MOON LIGHT. It’s called I Can Feel You Dancing and the second the verses started the entire room sang “happy birthday babe” with me. That was a good feeling. Being able to play music and have other people buy tickets to come and see you play is still the craziest thing to me. It is the honor of a lifetime and I can’t wait to get back at it. 

I saw your AMA set at The Station Inn in Nashville during the 2018 Festival and it was the only gig that whole week where I encountered a long line of people outside who could not get into the show. I remember thinking that night that your career was really about to jump gears. You played for the people who could not get into the show – on the street, a few songs, which was so well appreciated and received. Your generosity of spirit was highlighted right there. Is this something that you nurture as your baseline?

We are in the hospitality line of work. I love finding those little moments in our career where we can do something that we were not planning on and it is life giving to someone else.  Singing outside the Station Inn was one of those moments.

You have a very dedicated Facebook group, Tree To Grow, which I’m sure you know about?

We love those folks. Not only have they been such a beacon of light for us, but they also have started helping out each other. You should see the messages of hope and community that is expressed on that page right now during this lock in. It’s just beautiful.

Does such unconditional love ever feel uncomfortable for you as a band at times?

It’s usually the one thing we have all been waiting to do all day. “The waiting is the hardest part.” So, it’s usually a release for us. We also have realised that we are a lot like a family. Sometimes we drive each other mad. And we have figured out that we can’t play a show unless we have understanding between each other.That is probably the number one way that we focus our work into each night.

Your performance dynamic has been highly praised and the attitude of leaving nothing behind on the stage. The 3-part harmonies are so spine-tingling during a performance. Do you work hard at the parts you sing or do you allow a certain amount of spontaneity each time you perform live?

That’s exactly right. We work hard at writing the foundational parts, but then we leave room for what the song might turn into each night.

The soulful, almost gospel, performances that you deliver seem to be on the verge of overwhelming the audience at times. Do you get that energy from the crowd during the performance?

Sometimes. For sure … 

Given the intensity of every performance, have you ever had to deal with vocal strain or problems due to the rigours of heavy touring schedules?

Yes, I got nodes back when we first started, because I didn’t understand what altitude could do to my body. We were in Denver. I couldn’t speak for a couple weeks … During that time, and trust me, we don’t know him from Adam, but somehow John Mayer found out about what happened to me and he took the time to reach out to me and coach me through it.  I couldn’t believe it. I still can’t. Crazy.

The new record has lots of interesting new dynamics in the arrangements with Aaron Dessner opening up the sound to a wider palette of musical colours. Was this something you were looking for in working with him? 

Working with Aaron, he had just finished BIG RED MACHINE and I loved the new sounds he found with Justin Vernon on that record. He and Jon Low seemed to be on a new level with the exploration they were into. We wanted to stretch ourselves on this record. We wanted to find a new instrumental sound. We started each song with a click track and a humm of vocals and built it out from there. That was new for us ... We had done everything basically live with drums leading up to this record. We also wanted to sing differently. We didn’t want to rest on the things we had done with past work.

Your music resonates with Irish music audiences in its honesty and passion. You were due to play here shortly but unfortunately the gigs have been postponed. What message do you have for the many Irish fans who will not get to see you at Whelan’s or the Kilkenny Roots Festival this coming May?

That we LOVE you so much. We can’t wait to get back there. You guys are the salt of the earth!

Finally, any last message or thoughts that you want to send? 

In closing, please encourage your people to reach out to us on our socials. Especially right now where loneliness is like a monster lurking in the corner. We are in this together.

Interview by Paul McGee

Amy LaVere Interview

Amy LaVere has been creating music of a consistently high quality since her debut, This World Is Not My Home,appeared back in 2006. With the recent release of her sixth album, Painting Blue, she has confirmed her position as one of the leading talents in the Americana/Roots genre, with her eclectic mix of Country, Gypsy Jazz and Soul expression. Currently living in Memphis, Tennessee and facing the same uncertainty that we are all experiencing during the Corona Virus pandemic, Amy sat down to answer our questions in connection with her latest project and her overall career, in the face of the everything that is changing our  world right now.

Congratulations on the release of your sixth album. How long has it been in preparation?

This record took me several years to pull together. Being newly in love and in a more stable and healthy situation was uncharted territory and I didn’t really have much I needed to say for a while.  

There is a very streamlined production across the nine tracks. Was this a conscious decision before you started the recording process?

I have something of my own ‘wrecking crew’ in Memphis. They are a seriously talented group of people whose aesthetics suit me so well and with whom I’ve made several records.  I knew what I would be getting from them. 

Your previous release, Hallelujah I’m A Dreamer, was recorded live in the studio over a single day and it had a stripped back, beautifully bare and bright sound. Was this approach something that you have been channelling over the years since it was released? 

This stripped-down version was happening first in my live shows, initially because of my budget and eventually more often because it happened to suit many of the songs so well live. We made that record to be something for people wanting to take home with them something most representative of the show they had just witnessed. 

Your husband, Will Sexton, produced the new album and his light touch and superb guitar parts add lots of colour to the sound. The album has a sweet Jazz groove with elements of brooding, atmospheric tones laid across the songs. How did the decision to have Will produce come about? 

It was an obvious decision.  I knew what I wanted, for the most part, for the record and there is no one I trust more than Will. He ‘gets’ me and was a natural collaborator of mine even prior to becoming my love. He is also more knowledgeable speaking on matters of the more technical side of recording as well as in music theory. We make a superb team. 

There are three cover songs on the album. You regularly feature cover songs in both your live sets and on your albums and I wanted to ask what your process is for choosing specific songs to fit into the overall feel of a project?

Cover songs find me. I sometimes hear a tune and if it’s something I feel really compelled by and/or feel owned by, I usually sit down and learn it.  I find them useful to complete a thought for me in a batch of tunes for a record. 

You always bring your own unique interpretation to the cover songs that you choose. Do you hear them in your head in a certain way before you track them in a studio environment? 

I can only be myself. They get filtered through my own unique voice and preferences. It’s unavoidable. 

You played upright bass as your instrument of choice right from the start of your musical journey. Did you develop your slapping technique over time or was it a natural rhythm you had from the early days? 

The slap technique was immediate and natural. Mastering intonation and versatility is something I’m always working to improve.

Is it the same instrument that you originally owned - an Englehart from the 1970’s, I think?

Yes!

Has your song-writing process changed much over the years?

I don’t believe so.  It’s as undisciplined and random as it’s always been and completing any song still feels like a minor miracle. 

How difficult is it to be a full-time artist in these days of downloads and streaming with no decent royalty payments available anymore?

Answering this question today amidst the Coronavirus Pandemic is almost too much to bear. The magnitude of all the many mountains facing musicians who are trying to make a living as artists is unfathomable now.

Do you enjoy touring or would you prefer stay home and focus on studio work?

Touring and playing music for listening audiences is the highlight. That said, here in quarantine in the spring in Memphis is proving to be only healthy for my creativity- and my baking skills. 

Did you first encounter Will Sexton back in 2014 when he played on the Runaway’s Diary album?

Will and I met the year prior when working on a project called ‘Chasing The Ghost’ with singer Shannon McNally and my long-time drummer Shawn Zorn. 

I notice that some of the other musicians who played on that album also returned for the new release - Shawn Zorn (drums) and Tim Regan (piano) on a number of tracks. Also, from the 2011 release, Stranger Me, David Cousar (guitars), Rick Steff (keyboards and accordion) are included on Painting Blue. Were these trusted players you had wanted to hand pick for the new record?

A very BIG yes.

As a singer-songwriter you have such eclectic taste across a number of genres. This always has stood to you in terms of an ability to comfortably fit into whatever style and direction that you choose to take. On the new album were you conscious of a specific aspiration regarding the sound you were chasing?

I was not.

Whether you are playing a murder ballad, the Blues, a Bossa nova beat, a smoky gypsy groove, Tejano or a light jazz waltz, the integrity in the playing and the writing shines through. Do you like taking risks across the different musical styles that you employ?

Eh, what is the risk, really? The song and the story dictate what the music it lives in sound like. 

The Stranger Me release was a departure from the first two records and had a bigger sound, more up-tempo tracks and a Rock oriented drive, with horns and keys appearing for the first time. Was that a direction you consciously decided not to pursue on subsequent releases? 

I think more often than not I’m compelled regarding the nature of any production of any given song more than conscious of what it needs to sound like. 

I am drawn back more often to the sad and melancholic songs. With so many songs, they cannot all be character based and there are elements of both your strengths and vulnerabilities sprinkled across your body of work. Are you comfortable opening up a fragile and sensitive side for others to see?

I am, mostly. Maybe I can’t help it. Sure, I didn’t think I would put No Room For Baby on the record but this was mostly because I didn’t think it would be appreciated. It was cathartic for ME. I didn’t think it was necessarily meant for an audience. I did want to record as I was hearing it in my head, however but was reluctant to put it on this record. Ultimately, I’m glad I did. 

The loneliness of the song, Snowflake, from Runaway’s Diary, with a young girl looking for a place in the world seems to lead into the relative distance and separation of another song, Self Made Orphan, from the same record, with a reluctance to commit selflessly to another. The fear of opening up is something that also comes across on the new album in tracks like Love I’ve Missed. Are you hinting at the sophisticated woman that questions everything and continues to wrestles with new insights? 

I think I often dwell on my past as if I were my own analyst. I’m always trying to unravel why I behaved certain ways. 

The joy of creating something unique and never being afraid to take chances in experimenting with your sound, leads to interesting collaborations, whether with other female artists (Shannon McNally, The Wandering) or Country/Rockabilly based male contemporaries like John Paul Keith… Is there a restless spirit within you that gets bored and needs to shape shift?

I’m not always extremely prolific as a solo artist. I have a strong need to stay in motion musically speaking and collaborations and side projects keep me moving and creating peripherally. 

This attraction to the creative urge within has led you to explore acting, which is something that you have successfully navigated. What are the main differences that you find between the discipline required in acting and that of song-writing and performing? 

 For me, very little.  Acting well feels very much like successfully losing yourself in a story just like singing an immersive song does. It’s been a while since I’ve had an acting project, however. 

Maybe all life is a play and we, as actors, are rarely true to ourselves, let alone another. It could be all tongue in cheek and you are gently laughing at the absurdity of it all?

That would be a luxury that I do not have...

Is the glass half full or half empty?

It’s half full, but damnit, it’s ALWAYS ONLY half full. 

Can we expect a tour to Europe at any stage into the future?

YES, I sure hope so. Till then, please stay safe over there and hold each other close. Sending love from Memphis. 

Interview by Paul McGee

Michaela Anne Interview

One of the many highlights of the AMA UK Festival in London earlier this year was the Yep Roc Record Label’s showcase at the trendy Oslo Gastro Pub in Hackney. Six acts signed to the North Carolina-based label performed - established names such as Chatham County Line and Daddy Long Legs, alongside emerging ones, Jack Klatt, Jonah Tolchin and Mapache.

The final artist from their roster was Michaela Anne, who falls somewhere in between ‘emerging’ and ‘established,’ while winning more and more attention thanks to her quite excellent album, DESERT DOVE, which came out last year.

This was a return visit to the festival for the Brooklyn-born artist, currently residing in Nashville, and the difference between now and her previous appearance was dramatic. A less than satisfactory sound system and a small crowd twelve months ago, did little to highlight her capabilities and talent nor to match the dazzling performances I caught with her and her band in Nashville on a number of visits in recent years.

This time around and the experience is on an altogether different level. The sound is crystal-clear, there’s a full house and a cracking band (which includes her husband and musical director Aaron Shafer-Haiss on drums) provides her with the platform to show just why she’s gathered acclaim since the release of DESERT DOVE. She grasped the opportunity with both hands and delivered a set that underlined her outstanding vocal ability as well as the undoubted quality of the material on the album.

A few hours earlier I had been sitting across the table from Michaela Anne in the upstairs bar and it was one of those déjà vu moments as we met there in 2019.

She has impeccable social skills - she’s extremely polite, smiles and laughs a lot, often even at her own expense. Clearly, she has a very wise head on young shoulders, practical and under no illusions of how challenging her chosen profession can be. “A music career costs a lot of money”, she tells me, in a matter of fact way.

After releasing two well-received albums, EASE MY MIND (2014) and BRIGHT LIGHTS & THE FAME (2016), her career appeared to be progressing very much to plan.

It was thrown off course with the demise of the independent label that released her second album, leaving her with a bunch of songs written for her follow up, but without the financial support of a label. Taking the courageous decision to head to California to record the album could have spelt financial suicide. On the contrary, it gave her free reign to put her own stamp on the product without any undue record label interference. It also proved to be a blessing in disguise as the highly respected Yep Roc signed her on the strength of the album.

“It was extremely difficult. I still to this day go back and forth and think what was I doing (laughs). When it came to make this record, I could have done a Kickstarter fund raiser. I’m not knocking Kickstarter and might very well do one in a few years. I just didn’t want to have to ask people for money. As a musician you can always be depending on people’s kindness and generosity, it can be soul sucking. I just wanted to do this for myself and take the risk of betting everything on the record. I eventually took out a bunch of credit cards and ran up a bunch of debt and then Yep Roc came along.”

Self-christened “the artist-driven label that refuses to be labelled’, they would appear to be tailor made for Anne – somewhat like-minded acts such as Aoife O’Donovan, Amy Helm, Tift Merritt and Kim Richey, to name but a few are label mates. She explained how the connection developed.

“My manager also works with other acts on Yep Roc. So, when I had the album finished, he and I were sending it to a number of labels and they were on that list. Fortunately, they liked it and I went out to North Carolina and met them. There was a lot of relationship building. It’s always been an uphill climb, trying to put all the pieces together for an album at the same time.  I love being on Yep Roc and have a great manager, so it feels like home. They have given me the support to do what I want to do. Their prerogative is simply to allow artists to be artists. And it’s worked, the album has sold much more than my other records”

She worked with co-producer Sam Outlaw - she had previously played guitar in Outlaw’s band - and Kelly Winrich of Indie Rock band, Delta Spirit. The decision proved to be rewarding, giving her the space to complete the album devoid of the everyday intrusions that could arise when working from her home base. The relocation also had an impact on the musical direction of the album, which manages to forge a sound with roots in both traditional and modern country.

“Kelly, who recorded the album, has a home recording studio in San Clemente in California and it became an option to spend a few weeks out there. I liked that idea and I also liked getting out of Nashville. I love living in Nashville a lot and have a super community of friends there, but it can also get stifling sometimes and hard to be creative. It was easier to focus outside Nashville and not get distracted by what was going on. There weren’t any shows or any other things happening in San Clemente, we were just writing without distractions.”

Thankfully, she avoided crossing over to the dreaded pop/country sound with the album. Having moved from Brooklyn to Nashville, she also resisted the temptation to enter the ‘nine to five’ writing school scenario, which appears to be the recommended route to stardom on Music Row. Nor did she have a master plan to target any particular market.

 “I definitely don’t look at markets (laughs). I do it from the heart. The most I’ve ever done is try to dip my toe in the song writing scene in Nashville. I thought, “should I be more like some of the others, writing songs for other artists’’ but I immediately knew I had to write for me. I made this record based on what I wanted to write and with music that I like to hear, yet looking consciously for a certain sound. I think it is classic country combined with a modern sound. I don’t know that many records that have the duel influences of that classic country sound but also with a modern feel that I was looking for. Shania Twain and The Dixie Chicks both did that back in the 90’s.”

Much of the album reads like a heartfelt, personal diary, taking stock of her everyday personal experiences.  The tight rope balancing act of trying to keep all the balls in the air at the same time are explored, whether it be fulfilment, marriage, desire, ambition and frustration. The splendid opening track on the album, By Our Design speaks of the toils of her and her husband, surviving the calling of their careers as professional musicians (“Straight jobs and steady pay, were never in our cards to play. Late nights and songs to sing and long drives are our trade”).

‘For me, I hadn’t started touring until about five years ago and I was probably a bit naive as to how difficult it is to live out of a suitcase, away from your family and your loved ones.’

Though petite in stature, you get the impression she is quite a street wise individual, well able to fight her corner. The inclusion of the song, If I Wanted Your Opinion, stemmed from continuing encounters with sexism and gender inequality in the industry.

“It’s still is really bad. You hear that women are just whining but there is a lot of deeply ingrained sexism in a lot of places. I wrote If I Wanted Your Opinion based on a lot of personal reactions I’ve had. I have to say I haven’t only experienced it in the US, it’s everywhere. A man in Amsterdam asked me if I had any children and if I felt guilty playing music and leaving my children behind. He thought he was being funny, I told him ( in no uncertain terms) that he wasn’t.”

The Highwomen (Natalie Hemby, Brandi Carlisle, Maren Morris and Amanda Shires ) were formed  essentially to make a statement about the lack of radio airplay for female artists on Country Music Radio. Their debut self-titled album released in 2019 reached No.1 in the American Country Charts and No.10 in the Billboard Charts. Commercially driven, or otherwise, they have certainly made an immediate impact and not surprisingly Michaela Anne gives them the thumbs up.

 “I think it’s a wonderful idea. If they are commercially driven, I think it’s to push the gender issue and try to get radio play for female artists.  Being commercially driven is not a bad thing at all and I think it’s a beautiful record and not modern pop country. I don’t know them personally but I think they are four genuine sisters trying to give a platform to that sentiment. I’m a big fan of Brandi Carlisle, I think she is pretty incredible.” 

After a whirlwind twelve months with a record label signing and an album that’s been earning glowing reviews, how does she foresee her career progressing in the short term?

“I have no idea (laughs). Exposure, working hard, playing a lot of shows, hoping that the people promoting are really promoting in an effective way, all will help. There are a lot of things that an artist has little control over. All I can do is keep making the music, putting myself out there on social media, being patient and staying true to myself.”

For someone who exhibits the charm of a Southern Belle and the grit of a New Yorker, is she still a Brooklyn girl at heart?

“I feel like I’m a New Yorker in a lot of ways and I’ll always be a New Yorker in my heart. But it’s so fast and so expensive in New York. I love the pace in Nashville, I love owning a house, having a garden, living beside Percy Priest Lake, having space and being close to nature yet also close to the city. We are about twenty minutes’ drive from Downtown.  We lived in East Nashville when we came first and it feels like you’re at Americana Fest all the time. We joke that we now live off campus. I do miss East Nashville, the bars, restaurants and coffee shops and a lot of my friends live and work over there but it’s also beautiful where we live.”

Interview by Declan Culliton

Nordicana Part 2 - Louien (Live Miranda Solberg) Interview

Part 2 of our continuing research into the artists that are carrying the torch for the ever-growing Norwegian Folk/Country genre (Nordicana). We spoke with Live Miranda Solberg (aka Louien) about her stunning album NONE OF MY WORDS and how one single, posted on Soundcloud, created the momentum for local and international exposure beyond her wildest dreams.

The decision to upload your single ‘Demo No.1’ to Soundcloud in 2017 proved to a career changing progression. How did it come about?

Well, I recorded that song after a studio session with my band Silver Lining - I’d just written it and I was really excited about it. I felt like I’d made something very authentically me. But then I let it sit in my computer for quite a long time, until a friend of mine was playing a show in Oslo and I was to open for her - that’s when I felt like I had to put something out there to show what I was about. You could say it was a long time coming, but it was kind of a coincidence that it happened at that exact time.

The reaction was nothing short of exceptional. Apart from attracting invitations to perform at major festivals in Norway and kick starting your career, did its sudden impact inspire your writing or was much of the material for your album NONE OF MY WORDS already underway?

Yes, it was kind of crazy, I never saw all that recognition coming! It inspired me a whole lot, I wrote some of my best songs to date in that period. ‘Heart and Mind Alike’ was written just days before my first proper solo show at Mono (legendary bar in Oslo, now sadly closed), because I needed a few more songs in my set. I was very inspired and had a lot to get off my chest. Some of the material for the album had already been written, but most of it was written between 2016 and 2018. 

You’re on record describing the album as the first phase of a grieving process after the passing of your father. Tell me about the album title. It suggests that the songs ‘came to you’ as if otherworldly?

Yes, it was certainly a time of immense grief for me. The album title came at a very late state in the making of the album - it’s taken from the song with the same title, which is the last one I wrote for this body of work. It’s actually more about how nothing I can say or do will be enough to help this person I’m singing to/about. It might be describing a feeling of hopelessness, but also anger, that this person just won’t listen to reason. 

Even though the motivation for the material came from loss and sadness, the album is uplifting and joyous in many ways. Did the ability to create such passionate music in itself reward you with positivity and a sense of stoicism? 

Absolutely! It’s such a gift to be able to express pain through music. I’ve grown up with so much music around me, and singing has always been a way for me to feel better. Also, to me, an emotion is almost never just bad or just good. There is so much nuance in grief. It felt natural to accompany the sadness in the lyrics with more uplifting and beautiful melodies and music, to show that things can be good and bad at the same time. 

How different was the writing for this album compared to the band Silver Lining which includes three other songwriters?

The writing in itself is not much different - it’s just me and my guitar, trying to express whatever is going on within. But when the song is done, I normally know which project I want to use it in. In Silver Lining we’ve shared the space much more - we’ve all brought songs to the group, worked on them together. One of the premises for the band is that everyone has an open mind and not be overprotective of the song - we’re a democracy, all four of us have a say in how the songs should be “solved”. In my solo project I’m the boss, I call the shots, so that’s a completely different way of working.  

How important was it for you to write this solo album rather than incorporate the songs into a Silver Lining album?

It was the only right thing to do. Some of my songs just needed to be just me. I also feel like I’m quite dual when it comes to writing music - some of my songs are more traditional Folk/Americana, and so they fit Silver Lining very well. The odd songs that don’t really fit in anywhere else are the ones I include in my solo project. 

The album could have been quite stripped back without the addition of the strings to lift the music to an altogether different level. Had you initially intended to reach for such a full sound?

I’m not really sure what I aimed for initially, but when I met my producer Øyvind Røsrud it became very clear that I could bring all my strange and kind of wide spread inspirations into this project. He just gets me musically, and so we had a lot of fun playing with ideas and just going with what seemed fit each song. It was his ideas to have THREE cellos on it, and I just love how that turned out to be perfect for this album. 

Given the different musical layers on the album, do you attempt to recreate that sound live or offer more stripped back versions of the songs on tour?

I’ve done both: for my release concert we were 11 people on stage, cello, guitars, drums, piano, harmonies - the works. But mostly I play solo or with a guitarist, so very much a stripped-down version of the songs. It’s essential to me that the songs can take on any format and still work - that’s when you know a song is really good. 

Was it intended to be a ‘one off’ dealing with particular issues that presented themselves? And given the glowing reviews it has received; do you see it as a stepping stone to further a solo career?

Actually, no, I just wrote the songs, expressing how I felt at the time, and then when we went in the studio, we understood that all the songs were kind of about the same thing. I definitely see it as both a work that can stand alone and a stepping stone. I’m working on new songs as we speak, and I really hope they will become an album too, sometime in the not so far future.

It’s not easy to categorise your sound. How would you describe it to someone who was about to explore your music?

Ha, always such a hard question to answer! To me it's definitely singer-songwriter and folk at its core, and then I guess Americana, alt. folk and sometimes pop could be other words to describe it. And it’s definitely melancholic! 

Were your influences specific artists growing up or a particular music genre?

I have grown up with music around me all the time. I loved (and still love!) Abba, Spice Girls, Hanson when I was growing up. My dad was big into classical music, and always played it loud in the mornings - Chopin, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mozart. My mom listened to Portishead, Nina Simone, Joni Mitchell. My step dad introduced me to Lauryn Hill, Sonic Youth, Dolly Parton. At summer camp we used to sing Tom Petty, Neil Young, Bob Dylan. So, I was influenced by all that. And then I started listening to Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix in high school. I discovered Gillian Welch in my early twenties, along with Alison Krauss and that whole scene. I’m always looking for new music to listen to, there’s nothing I love more than music that resonates with me! My favorites at the moment are Courtney Marie Andrews, Erin Rae, Fleetwood Mac and Amason.  

I’m intrigued and indeed hugely impressed by the quality of music coming out of Norway. Are you conscious of the Nordicana (as its being labelled) genre emerging over the past twelve months and has there been a conscious effort by your label Jansen Records to seek new markets outside your homeland? 

Yes, it’s such exciting times! So many amazing musicians in Norway right now, in all genres really.  I’ve been conscious of this group of “Nordicana” musicians for a long time. To me it all started when the DJ’s in Die With Your Boots On (which is now a record label under Jansen Records) started hosting a Country/Americana club in Oslo about 7 years ago. The played records, and two emerging bands from the scene played at each event. So many people showed up for it! The musicians became aware of each other, and how many other people were into making this kind of music. Many great collaborations started in this period, and the community has grown significantly and since then.  It’s definitely been a conscious effort by Jansen Records to reach a broader audience as well, they’ve worked at it for so many years, and I think they are amazing at it!

 Interview by Declan Culliton

Nordicana Part 1 - Malin Pettersen Interview

I’m in Rough Trade’s flagship record store in Brick Lane, East London for a performance by Norwegian country singer Malin Pettersen – a gig that coincides with the four-day Americana UK Festival in nearby Hackney. Pettersen is a lead vocalist of the band Lucky Lips but she has also recorded two solo albums, the second and most recent, is a stripped-to-the-bone, six track EP titled, ALONESOME. 

She performed her Festival showcase the previous night at Paper Dress Vintage with a full band, which included members of Darling West, another Norwegian act booked to appear at the Festival. Pettersen is fashionably dressed down in tee shirt and 70’s style flared jeans for today’s event, in contrast to the white nudie suit and sky-blue cowgirl boots she wore at the previous night’s show. Renowned as a fashion-conscious performer, her casual attire on stage today reflect the themes in the well-crafted material she delivers from the EP. Where last night’s set was upbeat, this one homes in instead on Pettersen’s rich vocals and nimble guitar playing.

Sitting in the make shift dressing room after her set, I remind her of my first encounter with her. Lucky Lips had been booked for a gig at the celebrated Station Inn in Nashville at Americana Fest 2018, appearing on stage before the rising star, Colter Wall. Not the ideal time for your luggage to go missing in transit, which unfortunately was the dilemma Pettersen found herself in. Shorts, trainers and a straw hat replaced the intended western attire.

 ‘’It was a pretty vulnerable situation as it was the first time we were at Americana Fest and at the Station Inn, which is such a legendary venue,” Malin tells me.” I have this suit that I was to wear which would have made me feel comfortable and allow me to focus on the music. Then when my bags got lost, I thought ‘Oh No!’ I then had to think what do I wear and it just screwed me up so much.  Even though I like to convey feelings by what I wear, I’m conscious that the music is always the most important thing. That night I thought, I’m just going to wear something that’s weird and have fun.’’ 

Her ‘go to’ style when fronting her band is very much Western Style, which seems important to her in keeping with the country music tradition. 

‘’For me, the Western look is just a cool way to show my audience that I appreciate and respect the history of the music and that I’m attempting to be like my musical heroes.  They made the music that they wanted to make. They did not copy anyone, which was very respectful of the people who came before them. As a kid I’d always wanted to express myself by what I wore and I thought by the time I’d reach eighteen I would know exactly what my style was. Well, that never happened for me and it was a very confusing time, reaching that age and not finding my individual style. I then realised that my thing was just about everything and to just dress like my mood at the time.’’

I had been somewhat taken back on the first play of ALONESOME. I had expected a combination of fiddles, pedal steel guitar and twang, but the only instruments are her vocals and guitar throughout. However, I was won over after a few listens. It was a brave move to temporarily change musical direction, yet it succeeded in highlighting Pettersen’s ability to compose deep and thoughtful songs while revealing her crystalline vocals. 

‘‘It was supposed to be a very personal project. I felt I had to do to prove to myself that I could actually do that, just be me. I actually didn’t think that anybody would listen to it. It blew me away that people accepted it and it’s been the album that has got my name out there, more so than my first album REFERENCES Pt.1, which is more of a band thing.  I did feel that I had so many things that I needed to say and so many ways of saying things that I wanted to explore. I knew I could not please everyone all the time, as some people will like my acoustic stuff and some will like the band music more. But I have all of these thoughts in me – and it means so much to me when people say they like the EP because it’s really me in my barest form. It’s also a bit of an adventure because I’m used to being in a very safe place with Lucky Lips. We’ve been playing together for more than a decade and we know each other very well. REFERENCES Pt.1, which was my first album without the Lucky Lips players,was all about trying to play with other people and see if I could make the music I had in my head with other people, and try to be in charge. I’d proven to myself that I could do that with that album but I then needed to see if I could work without other people and trust myself. I was still hiding and leaning on the fact that I needed other people around me. That was where the idea for ALONESOME came from, I needed to trust myself to do my own thing. It was actually after a concert at the Station Inn with Andrew Combs - we did an amazing duo set - that I decided I wanted and needed to do a solo album.’’

The songs are quite melancholy and intimate, in some cases looking over her shoulder at past life experiences, as well as taking stock of the present. 

‘’For that album, all the songs definitely come from my experiences, though Lonely With You, one of the gentler ones, was written in my head as a story about someone else, but with a feeling I had to explore for myself. Three of the songs are written about what I feel right now and the other three are retrospective, looking back at my early twenties when it was difficult, sometimes, just growing up. It was also a good experiment for me, now that I have my kids and my marriage and I feel fortunate for the things I have in my life. I wanted to see if I could still write those type of songs in my present circumstances. So, I had to dig deep and go back to earlier experiences. But it felt good to write about it and see it from a distance.’’

Pettersen appeared on stage with J.P. Harris at his annual Sunday Morning Coming Down event at Americana Fest last September and also features on his WHY DON’T WE DUET ON THE ROAD (AGAIN) EP. The only non-American singer to grace that stage with J.P. Harris, she was offered the closing slot and delivered a note perfect rendition of the Tom Paxton classic, The Last Thing On My Mind.  

‘’Amazing. My God that was a dream. I don’t normally get nervous, I’m usually logical about playing live, but I really was.  All these fantastic artists were waiting there ready to go up and do their songs. All these people that I’d listened to so much, Nikki Lane, Molly Tuttle, Kristina Murray, Miss Tess, Kelsey Waldon and Erin Rae. But it was a great experience.’’

J.P. Harris is renowned for his ongoing support of female artists, often at the expense of promoting his own career. A casual connection on social media with him was the spark that has helped her network with him and likeminded artists in Nashville. 

‘’It was really funny. I’ve always used social media as a means to connect with other country music lovers and I basically started following a lot of these up and coming country artists in Nashville. Many years ago, I had met J.P. Harris for the first time in Oslo when he was playing with Chance McCoy. He and I have a common friend, a fiddler from Austin and that was my connection. We followed each other on Instagram and in 2018, when you saw us at The Station Inn, was the second time I got to meet him. I wasn’t sure he would remember me, but he did and we connected. Later that year he emailed me to say he was going on a European tour and that he really wanted to go to Norway but didn’t have any dates there yet. He’d listened to Lucky Lips and asked if we’d be interested in doing a show together of country classics in Oslo and have fun. We did do it and it was so much fun. One of the things I find with the Nashville people is that they know and love the same music as we do. I could say ‘can we do this George Jones song’ and it’s like ‘Yeh, sure we know that one’. After that show J.P. told me he was recording a new EP and would love to have me feature on it. That was huge for me. Another thing about the Nashville music scene is that I’ve been fortunate to become a tiny part of. It’s amazing how hugely supportive they all are. I expected it to be all elbows.‘’

That trip to Americana Fest also gave her the opportunity to put down the bones of her next solo album, taking advantage of the local talent and recording in Nashville for the first time.

‘’Yes, I recorded songs for a new band album in Nashville with a guy called Ryan Keith. He has a tiny studio in Nashville but it’s filled with the most amazing gear. I worked with Ryan, Aaron Goodrich and Misa Arriaga. These were the three people I wanted to record with. They brought in Eddie Dunlap on fiddle and steel guitar who is fantastic and some other players.  I might also include some older songs on the finished album and I’m enjoying playing with a band. Again, it was all about exploring my music. The reason that I make music is because I have a curiosity about myself, people, power and this life we all live in. I’m always trying to understand it and probably never will (laughs). I also wanted to record with a band that I had never really met, had never worked with and lived on the other side of the planet, with songs they’d never heard before. Songs that were never rehearsed: just go in to the studio and work the songs. It was an adventure, more than I could ever have dreamed about.’’

Artists often refer to the Nashville experience and say they draw inspiration by recording in Music City. Pettersen certainly found this to be the case. 

‘’Definitely, for me it was so true. The first time I went to Nashville I did not really have my hopes up as I figured that a place like that with so much history would be daunting. I pictured that the whole of Nashville would be like Broadway and I thought ‘don’t get your hopes up.’ To go there is like stepping into Country music. In Nashville it felt like I was living in some of the documentaries I had seen.  When you’re in the studio in Norway, everyone is on the clock, it costs a lot and you’ve to be gone at an exact time. That’s a way to be creative, too, but in the Nashville studio where we recorded, it was more like: ‘How long do you want to go’ and we’d say we’ve got a groove on this song, can we go to 2am. It felt amazing.’’ 

The term ‘Nordicana’ is one that is creeping its way into the ever-expanding body of musical genre. Acts like Pettersen, Signe Marie Rustad, Darling West and Louien seem to be currently leading the charge. That said, there has been a thriving country music scene in Norway for decades, although, as is the case in Ireland and the U.K, making a breakthrough both at home and overseas has always been a challenge.

‘There’s always been a country scene in Norway, which used to be called a roots scene. My dad was part of the second wave of that scene and I grew up playing with a lot of that last generation of musicians that made it big – artists such as Claudia Scott, who has played The Opry, and Tore Andersen. They went to Nashville in their day and some are still active, still working. Tore Andersen, who unfortunately died a few years ago, was one of my favourite songwriters. We have country festivals in Norway so there have always been people playing country music in Norway. In the last ten years it’s been steadily growing with a new wave of artists and exploded in the last few years with some of the names you’ve mentioned. It’s difficult to get exposure, not just outside Norway but even in Norway because country music has not been necessarily something that everyone wants to write about. Now because the numbers of acts are increasing and acts like ourselves and other parts of the industry are trying to be more professional, to create a business that we can make a living out of it - it is making a difference. So, we are getting noticed, this is the first time we’ve been at the AMA UK Festival and it’s been fun, and also welcoming. I know that I – and several others – would love to do more shows in Europe. Die With Your Boots On, the label that I am on are very good at trying to connect and find likeminded people outside of Norway.’’ 

What does set Norway aside from many other European countries is Government support for the Arts and Pettersen has recently been the recipient of such financial aid. 

‘’I’ve been doing this for half my life and last year was the first year that I got any Government funding which I feel very fortunate about. After I recorded REFERENCES Pt.1, I went on a small tour with that album and afterwards thought that I just can’t do this anymore. It does take a toll as I have children and was turning thirty. I was not making money and looking for support from my husband, and not being the responsible grown up that you’re supposed to be. So now things are going in the right direction but I do know from experience that it can turn the other way any minute. So, I’m fortunate to have the grant and will continue to work hard.’’ 

It has been interesting observing the progress that the Norwegian has been making in recent years and also her undivided enthusiasm for the music she believes in. Hopefully she will be invited for another return visit to Americana Fest this September. 

‘’I really hope so. I think I’ll be going to Nashville either way, it’s just so much fun. I remember the first time I went there I did Honky Tonk Tuesday Night at The American Legion over there and someone told me after the show that they could tell I was into George Jones by my phrasing. I’d never come across people who knew country music like that before.’’ 

Interview by Declan Culliton

Jerry Leger Interview

Some artists hit the jackpot with their debut releases and struggle throughout their careers to recreate the dynamic of that first recording. Others release multiple albums before they come to the attention of a wider audience. Canadian Jerry Ledger most definitely falls into the latter category. With thirteen albums released over the past fourteen years, to describe him as a prolific songwriter is no exaggeration. That output consists of seven solo recordings, three credited to Jerry Leger and The Situation and three with his side projects, The Del Fi’s and The Bob Fi’s. It has been a long road to attain the recognition his output merits, but the tables appear to be turning for him of late.

 His early albums were released on his own Golden Rocket label, without sufficient funds to adequately promote those albums. A meeting with Michael Timmins in 2013 has proved to be significant, with the Cowboy Junkies main songwriter offering to both promote Leger’s next album at that time and also record it on their Latent Recording label. EARLY RISER (2014), NONESENSE AND HEARTACHE (2018) and his most recent album TIME OUT FOR TOMORROW, have all since been released on that label, under the watchful eye of Timmins and each has found Leger’s audience growing.

‘’ Well, Golden Rocket didn’t have any kind of budget, it was just a name I put on the records. I got the name from an old Hank Snow song I love. Latent is a real label, a small label run by artists with integrity. It’s been a good home for me and what I’ve been doing for the last while. It’s helped get the music out to more people and helped finally to get me overseas to tour and start building something there.’’ explains Leger. ‘‘ I certainly feel that TIME OUT FOR TOMORROW is my most concise musically. I met Mike (Timmins) through a mutual friend Josh Finlayson from Skydiggers, which is a great band here in Canada, also currently on the Junkies label. I was making an album with Josh and another buddy producing, Tim Bovaconti. Josh thought Mike might dig what I was up to and how I was doing it. The title comes from an old dime store sci-fi anthology a buddy gave me. The title just kept sticking in my head. I can’t explain exactly why but I felt it fit perfectly.’’

Leger references the album’s direction being influenced by Lou Reed’s CONEY ISLAND BABY and Nick Lowe’s THE IMPOSSIBLE BIRD. ‘’ Those albums inspired the general feel of TIME OUT FOR TOMORROW. That Nick Lowe record is like a giant hug to me. I get the same feeling from certain Everly Brothers records, Sam & Dave, etc.. and I wanted to make a record like that. That particular Lou record, well, I love it and it just has this real nice coasting feel. Sounds very relaxed while still making a point.’’

At least one album release per year over the past decade is a pretty impressive output by anyone’s standards. ‘’Yeah, I’m continually writing. I don’t want things to rust out.’’

Apart from the solo work and albums recorded with his band The Situation, Leger has two on going side projects to keep his machine well oiled. These ventures include both The Del Fi’s and The Bob Fi’s. They collectively give him the platform to put on record his extensive songbook, the former in a more traditional format than the latter. ‘’The Del Fi’s is a really fun band. I think it lifted me out of the drag that can be the music industry. I hate the amount of pressure that can be around. You know, put a record out then you have to sell it, hopefully get radio play, hopefully get some decent press, hopefully this, that and the other. I wanted to have a band and make music without any expectations and leave the business completely out of it. I wanted it to be a crazy beautiful mess. Some of the songs were written specifically for The Del Fi’s and some were songs I’d have laying around that didn’t fit in with what I usually do. Aaron Comeau, bless his heart, did a great job capturing these albums in his studio. The first album was really casual with musicians coming and going through a revolving door. It was a magical day in the studio, one of the best days I’ve ever had.’’

The Bob Fi’s is a more empirical project, giving Leger a platform to perform his spoken word, while engaging more experimental players. ‘’I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and I always write a lot of words, most of which just stays in the notebooks. I was listening to those Jack Kerouac albums where he would recite poetry to a musical backdrop and also Ken Nordine. I have friends, including Dan Mock and Kyle Sullivan in The Situation that have jazz chops, could write and play it. It was fun and a really good experience for me. I loved hearing the music they all came up with. I just gave a little direction on the kind of vibe I wanted and certain jazz records/artists that I love. I tried to be a conductor using the dynamics in the words and my voice.’’

The core musicians Leger is most comfortable with are his band The Situation, namely James McKie, Dan Mock and Kyle Sullivan. ‘When you find players that really click with what you’re creating and the direction you want to go in then there’s nothing better. Also, they’re really great friends and champions of my songs and the way I want our music and career to go. There’s a mutual respect and that’s also helped us keep going together all these years.’’

With this in mind what difference is there between a Jerry Leger album and a Jerry Leger and The Situation album? His explanation is both practical and understandable.

‘’ TIME OUT FOR TOMORROW could have easily been under “Jerry Leger and The Situation” but I stopped doing that a few records ago. The reason why is that more often than not I’m touring solo, duo, trio or just a different configuration of musicians. The last album where I had “and The Situation” in the title, we did one tour together and then I toured it without the band for the rest of the time. I felt like it was kinda lying to the public. I just decided to go a Springsteen route. Everyone knows E-Street band and they know when they’re present, they don’t need the confirmation on the cover of the album. Also, in the credits it always says “The Situation are:…” or something like that. Some of the albums have definitely had less of the band, like some of the early ones TRAVELING GREY and YOU, ME & THE HORSE. It keeps it simple to have just my name for catalogue reasons too.’’

Given the traction that the recent albums have gained, Leger also recorded a compilation album earlier this year. Titled TOO BROKE TO DIE, it was principally aimed at the European market where his popularity has been steadily growing. It makes perfect sense to trawl through that extensive war chest and offer it to the new audience rather than leave it gathering dust of a shelf.

‘’It was fun putting it together. I went through all the albums and it was a trip ‘cause after I make an album, I don’t sit around listening to it. It was like going in a time machine. “Is that me? I know it’s me, I remember recording that so I guess it’s me.” I’ve never gotten used to hearing myself, especially at different ages it’s pretty strange. The compilation was put together specifically for the European market because we had a big 2-month tour happening there and since the previous album had gotten a lot of attention, I wanted to reintroduce my previous work. Thought that would be a cool way of doing it. We put a couple of unreleased tunes on it for the folks that already had the complete discography.’’

Canada has been producing an endless stream of talented artists and bands over the past decade and appears to be a country that is hugely supportive of the arts in general. It is possible for an artist to survive within the confines of their home country. However, the allure has always been a calling to tour outside Canada for more than financial reasons. ‘’It's a necessity for me in a lot of ways. I don’t want to become lazy and stay in the comfort of my own home. It’s important for me to keep getting the music elsewhere. ‘’

With a reputation as a passionate collector of vinyl both new and vintage and with the current album drawing on the work of others, has he captured any particular gems recently that might spur the direction of the next album? ‘’It’s hard to say, for instance I’ve owned CONEY ISLAND BABY since I was a kid and it just caught me again in a certain moment. I recently picked up Irma Thomas’ WISH SOMEONE WOULD CARE. I really love the sound of that record. Been digging the Skeeter Davis/NRBQ album SHE SINGS, THEY PLAY. Also, a CD by a songwriter from Newfoundland, Ron Hynes. Great writer, sadly passed away a few years back. I really don’t know the direction of the next album; we’ll see when we get there. Some days I want to just walk into a room with a guitar and hit record and then the next day I hear a big orchestra in my head for a song I’ve just written. ‘’

With an uncanny interest and curiosity in ghosts, the latest album includes a track written about a ghost town named Burchell Lake. With a number of ghostly venues available in Ireland, a visit to our shores would be most welcomed. ‘’I grew up in a haunted house! I’m hoping to do a solo or duo tour of Ireland perhaps in the summer and yes, I’d love to do a little ghost research beforehand.’’

Interview by Declan Culliton

Interview with Wildwood Kin

In 2015, Wildwood Kin self released their first EP, titled SALT OF THE EARTH. It had four tracks, two of which made it onto their full-length debut album, TURNING TiIDES, that appeared in 2017. Three singles were released from that album before the writing process and recording of the second album began. 

Just released, this self-titled project sees the band build on their initial sound and start to hone their unique harmonies into something that is capturing plenty of media attention at present. We sat down with the three band members, sisters Emillie and Rebecca and cousin Bethany, for a chat and found them very open and engaging over the 30-minutes that they gave us before taking the stage for their debut Dublin gig at Lost Lane. 

You started playing in Devon at Church fairs, fetes and local mic nights and developed from there to West Country Festivals. 

We always had good local support from the community. We were all born in Exeter but Emillie and Beth moved to Torquay which is a half hour away and has a great mix of small city and countryside.

Your respective Mums (as sisters) are credited with giving you the encouragement to sing together. Was this from a very early age?

It was our Mums’ side of the family that had the musical and song-writing instincts; our Nana also wrote songs and we would harmonise from an early age on car journeys. There was a piano in the house and we did some grades but we also tried violin, learned guitar and clarinet and just always played together without necessarily knowing what note we were playing – just what sounded good together. We still don’t always know what key we are playing in when jamming with other musicians.

You don’t see yourselves as Folk artists despite the media trying to fit you into this box?

We were seen as not Folky enough by the Folkies and were too Folky for the Rock crowd. The comparisons with Fleetwood Mac are also made, which I can understand to a point, as their sound is genre-less and we have that problem.

The first record in 2017, Turning Tides, had no single producer. Do you think that this informed the sound of the tracks with different people wanting different things?

We started recording the first half of the album in 2016 in a London studio and didn’t finish it until the next year in a rural studio in Devon. One minute you are feeling intimidated by who has played in the London studio (Coldplay etc) and we felt a certain pressure as opposed to being far more relaxed in the Devon studio where we recorded probably our favourite songs from that record. We had been signed by Sony Music Entertainment Ltd after a show they attended at Union Chapel in London, about half way through the recording of the album. Sony gave us a licencing deal on the record which helped a lot with their advance going towards the cost of touring and they have been great to us, not getting in the way of what we want to do and not suggesting a direction that they think we should take. They are there if we need them and have been more involved with this second album as they were there from the start of it and have recommended producers that we may like to work with and also with the Marketing of the album. We have been really fortunate.

Everybody does want to pigeonhole you and we are just starting to learn that we do have more of a voice than we originally thought. We recently parted company with our manager due to certain pressures that were being brought to bear.

You released an EP in 2018 which had cover versions of four songs. Was this a conscious move?

We were still writing for our second album and were not ready to go into the studio so our management thought that we should make these covers our own and let our fans see just how we had developed our sound. It was our management that suggested it like an in-between thing.

Co-writes on this current record – how was the experience?

We always struggled with this concept as we tend towards our own co-writes between the three of us in the way we bring songs to each other. The thought of a stranger now sitting in with us felt like a blind date and a little bit awkward. The pressure to finish a song in a single session and then share it with our team. Essentially, they let us do our own thing but facilitated a space for us to look through an outside perspective which is something that we don’t do as a family band where it tends to be 2 against 1 if a vote is taken on something. To have a perspective from someone who wasn’t so close to the music was a good thing.Ed Harcourt for example just listened to what we had and we spent lots of time just talking. He let us play as a band and he wasn’t like,” I’ve got this great concept for you to try”.

The song messages are all very positive and the album works as a cohesive whole.

The reason we titled it Wildwood Kin was because we thought that it is more a representation of who we are and what we want to create. The first album was made over a longer time and there were delays and we were experimenting.

Who is the producer Ian Grimble?

It was one of our management who recommended him as he is a close friend. We were already fans of his work with Bears Den, Daughter and Seth Lakeman. We met with him and decided to go ahead but you never really know how the album will turn out, no matter how well or little you know the producer. If there is a pressure from other voices wanting things to sound more commercial for example, the mixing process can be difficult. 

The sound on the record is very full and the studio players who contributed, Tommy Heap (bass and keyboard bass) and Carlos Garcia V (additional guitars) help build the impression of a layered recording? 

Because of the high female vocals, we wanted the bass to balance out the sound. Playing live we can get away without the bass but on the recording, it just sounded like there was something drastically missing. We didn’t want the record to sound all trebly and empty. We didn’t want to bring extra musicians on this tour because of financial reasons but we are happy to be touring it as a trio. It’s all part of the learning process and we are open to using acoustic versions of our songs.

The message of female empowerment, self-acceptance, not letting life crush you. The manner in which you write about these issues on the album is very open and honest. The tragic events of Meg losing her brother to suicide is beautifully addressed in the song, Not Alone. Suicide is a big problem among the young and do you find your audience is mainly young people at the shows?

The audience is a real mix and we wanted to write about issues that impact us all. This album came after our family tragedy and it naturally felt right to deal with the issue in the correct way. The issue of mental health touches everyone and it’s amazing the way that people come up to you after a show and bring it up in conversation. It’s like they suddenly realize that they can talk about these things.

Interview by Paul McGee Photo by Donna McGee

Angela Perley Interview

Angela Perley Goes Solo with 4.30

Here she talks with Lonesome Highway about the new record, late-night song writing, touring, the Nashville scene and opening for Lucinda Williams.

The video premier of Angela Perley’s single Let’s Gofrom her current album 4.30 caught the attention of Billboard with award winning music journalist, Gary Graff describing her music as ‘’psychedelic garage pop, heartfelt country and Americana.’’ 

His thoughtful words served to emphasise the problem of trying to brand her sound under one simple heading. Her music embraces the psychedelic indie vibes perfected by Jesse Sykes and The Sweet Hereafter, the slick power pop output of Aimee Mann and Chrissie Hynde, yet it also touches on the rugged country sound of Lucinda Williams. It would be all too easy to pitch her under the Americana canopy, but that does not exactly fit either.  

Regardless, Angela Perley is an artist with the capacity to fashion melodic songs, some laid back and others full on, that hook you in on the  first listen and are likely to be locked in your memory for quite some time.

 “I have a hard time describing my music myself. For me it’s probably best to just think of it as rock and roll which encompasses all that, as well as the country and blues roots. We got invited to showcase at AmericanaFest in Nashville, so people definitely see it in that genre too.’’ 

Currently resident in Columbus, the State capital of Ohio, she’s been enjoying a short period of downtime before touring again. ‘

“I’m back home in Columbus, Ohio now. Heading to New York City and West Virginia soon, we have a little run coming up. It’s easy to tour out of Columbus and the cost of living is affordable here right now. But the city is growing and a lot of people are moving here. I grew up in Hilliard, Ohio, which is close to Columbus, and I went to school in Southern Ohio and Athens, Ohio, and back to Columbus after college.’’

The state of Ohio has gifted us a collection of standout musicians and bands over the decades. From Dean Martin to Doris Day, Boz Scraggs to The Black Keys and Dwight Yoakam to Buddy Miller, it has inspired artists across the musical spectrums. Both The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and The Blues Music Hall of Fame are located in Cleveland. A healthy appetite for live music exists in the State. 

“There is. Ohio in general is a hidden gem for music and a lot of different types of music at that. In Columbus itself there’s a big music scene and a lot of bands that are doing really well and touring out of Columbus right now. We play out of town, but our biggest shows are in Columbus and because of that we spread out our home town shows. We still love coming home to play to our local crowd, who have always been so supportive.’’

Previously recording as Angela Perley and The Howlin’ Moons, she recorded two albums on the Vital Companies label, Hey Kid in 2014 and Homemade Vision, two years later. Her latest album 4.30 was released earlier this year and it’s fair to say she has put her heart, soul and more into the project, and is reaping the rewards. The album constitutes a re-birth of sorts and a new chapter in the career of the bubbly and focused singer songwriter.

“Chris (Connor) and I were always the main people in the studio until the end, working on my songs. It wasn’t really like a band anymore. We had different multiple members playing with me in the band. It’s now like a new chapter with the new album based on the songs and Chris and I are taking a lead on it. Our previous recordings were on a local record label. This one was the first one when we weren’t on that label – it’s independent with a bit of rebranding. It gave me the opportunity to go in whatever direction I wanted.’’ 

The production and sound quality on the album are hugely impressive, particularly on Perley’s vocal and the guitar work by Connor. The introduction of layered vocals and strings also add to the overall album atmosphere. Co-produced by Perley and Connor, they engaged Columbus-based producer, Michael Landolt to apply the final mastering.  

“We mixed it ourselves to a point, trying to capture the sound without messing around too much with it. We got it together, getting the best sounds we could. We then gave Michael an idea of exactly what we wanted and asked him to make it shine from there. He’s really advanced, working with bass and guitars and knew how we wanted it to sound.  We had worked with him before. He actually produced some of our earlier stuff. We were a little scared to produce ourselves, so it was nice to have that outsider advice. But it worked out, we’ve had a great relationship with him. He gave general feedback, adding some parts here and there, which inspired Chris to try some things, add a little hook here and there.  That was our last few steps.’’ 

I wondered about the thought process on the sequencing of the album. Some of the rockier songs like Let Goand Dangerous Loveare followed by some of the gentler tracks. With current trends with people only listening to selective tracks, this is becoming an ongoing challenge for artists. 

“Oh my goodness, we had so many different orderings for the tracks, we were giving them to friends and family for comments. We wanted it to flow almost like a mini set and keep people’s attention on every song. We wanted to make an album that you listen to right through and when you circle back to the first track, the title track, it makes sense. That was probably the hardest part.’’ 

The album title refers to Perley’s preferred bed time and many of the songs on the album were written late at night, while the rest of the world slept. Not necessarily the most productive hours for many artists. 

(Laughs) “It is for me, though it’s funny, whenever I’m travelling and with the band it’s the complete opposite, having to get up early and keep moving. If I have a strict schedule I need to get to bed early, I need about eight hours sleep.  But when I’m home, I love late nights when everyone’s asleep. It’s my time to be alone and write songs. I get really creative at that time of night.’’ 

Don’t Look Back Maryis one of the standout tracks on the album, both in its melody and lyrics. I always find myself pressing the repeat button to hear it a second time when playing the album.  Its message is a reminder that there can be light at the end of the tunnel, even when present circumstances may seem endless. Perley’s writing appears to embrace both personal and third person subjects. 

“I try to put several people into a song and usually there’s a part of me that’s in the character, too. It’s usually about people I encounter and their stories. I often find beauty in sad songs and sad characters. In that song Mary is different. She’s been through a lot, but there’s that hope and strength in her that I like. I just love singing that song. I have a conceptual video for it that I’m working on right now which should be out there soon.’’

Leaving no stone unturned, the artwork on the album matches the musical content. The cover features Perley with flared cuffs, bell-bottomed hipster jeans, heavy eye liner, clutching her guitar – it’s the classic early 70s rock chic poise. It’s a striking image that sets the scene before taking the disc out of the packaging.

“I never wanted to put myself on a cover, but this is such a personal album that I put myself out there in that way. I didn’t want to cut any corners with this album. I wanted to work with artists that I admired, and that included the artwork. The designer, Keith Brogdon of Thinking Out Loud Design, who lives in Nashville, happened to be available and he does a lot of covers that have a cool retro vibe. I gave him certain things to work with, some album covers and the picture from the front cover, not much else. I wanted to keep it minimalistic, most of the covers I gave him were from the 70s. I wanted the artwork in keeping with the music and when he sent me the first shot, I knew it was definitely in the direction I wanted. ‘’

4.30 album cover

With the album out there, it’s time to continue working it, touring with a full band and also as a two piece with Connor, a relatively new experience for them. 

“It’s created a few more opportunities to play as a two piece. It’s given us the chance to travel a bit more. We’d normally tour with the full band, but it’s hard to break even on some of those runs, though I try to do everything with the full band as much as possible.  We normally tour lean and mean as a four piece and I also have to keep in mind that some of the musicians who tour with me have other projects that they’re working on. I’ve been more strategic this year with shorter runs, venues and places where we’ve already built up a presence over several years and also work on the festivals. They’re two different things, but I love the energy of playing with a band, it brings the songs to life. Playing as a two piece is good as a confidence builder and makes me stronger as a musician, so it’s good in that way.’’

Having seen her perform the last few years at AmericanaFest in Nashville, I’m interested to discover how that festival works for her, given that the majority of the female acts booked tend to be closer to folk and country than her. ‘

“We’ve gone the last few years. We played a showcase last year which was cool and we went this year to play a show at Tennessee Brew Company and to just take in the festival. I love it because most of my favourite bands are either playing the festival or live in Nashville. We plan to take that week off every year to go. I imagine it’s like SXSW was in the early days, before it got too big. AmericanaFest is still at the stage where it’s small enough to be like a reunion of people in the music industry.  I know that the market for female artists in Nashville is more Americana and Country and with where I’m coming from it’s actually a lot harder. People often don’t know what to do with bands like us, so you have to kind of make your own path and target your own audience.’’

Angela has shared stages in recent years with both Lucinda Williams and St. Vincent, to name but two, as her profile steadily rises.

“I’m a huge Lucinda Williams’ fan. I’ve always related to her as she’s always been a rock and roller but has the country roots side, too. It was one of my most memorable shows getting to open for her. A local promoter got me the gig – he knew I was a huge fan (laughs). She played at an old ballroom in Columbus that they were trying to revive as a venue. I also got to see her at The Ryman earlier this year on her anniversary Car Wheels On A Gravel Road tour, one of my favourite albums. I’d never been to the Ryman before, either.’’ 

With the positive reaction to 4.30 and the inevitable touring to further promote the album, Perley seems committed to continuing on a similar musical direction.

“Recording 4.30 ourselves and putting it all together was quite an undertaking so we’re going to tour off it and probably release some acoustic versions, some singles, maybe EPs. We want to release more because I’ve a lot of songs I don’t want to leave behind. My plan for next year is to hopefully keep releasing things. I’m always writing different things and even with 4.30 it was a case of putting together a collection that made sense as an album. I had lots of other songs that I wasn’t really feeling for this album. I’m finding each record is going in a similar direction so I’m probably not going to change direction too much.”

4.30 by Angela Perley is out now self-released. 

Interview by Declan Culliton Photograph by Cate Groubert

Paul Cauthen Interview

Paul Cauthen is a big, imposing figure as he ambles towards me, wearing beach shorts and flip flops, though he retains his rock’n’roll credentials with dark shades and the black, open crown hat that seems a permanent fixture on his head. 

He is only a few minutes late for the interview which comes the morning after he has hosted and performed at the Big Velvet (his nickname) Revue the night before at The Basement East, only a few doors down from where we are now standing in the swanky foyer of the newly-built Field Jones Hotel in Main Street, East Nashville. The gig – now an annual event at AmericanaFest – finished around 2 a.m. and I’ve no idea how long the after party lasted.

But he is very relaxed and I’m relieved.

And over the course of the next 40 minutes or so, he is considered, articulate and talks easily about the making of his current, excellent album, Room 41, during, and despite, a severe spell of self-destructive, personal problems, how a model broke his nose in a video film shoot, and why one of his new songs would never likely be performed at the Grand Old Opry. It was a lively, smooth, flowing conversation.

Cauthen, previously leader of roots outfit Sons Of Fathers, shifted his focus to his solo career with the release of My Gospel in 2016. This was a blast of Texas country, Memphis soul and gospel that earned him the reputation of an emerging outlaw artist.

His vocals certainly have a Johnny Cash quality to them and, while his musical style remains true to its origins in many aspects, it also incorporates funk, gospel and electro, giving it a unique panache, quite unlike anything else in the market.  It’s not commercially driven, radio friendly garbage, quite the opposite.

It seems the industry is not quite sure where to pigeon hole him but it is finding him too difficult to ignore, given the dynamic he’s creating and his quality output.

Before discussing Room 41, I was interested to get the story behind the Big Velvet Revue that had packed out The Basement East.

“It’s a gathering of all my favourite artists at the time, that I’m hoping will be around to do something with me at AmericanaFest and SXSW in Austin,” he says. “I just call them all up when they’re in town for the festivals and it usually works out. This is our third year. The first year was such a success that I think, man, I’m here to stay. We had a friend from our agency who has a good hook up there at The Basement East.

“We told him that at SXSW they sold $70,000 dollars’ worth of alcohol in six hours at our show, one of the biggest feats of Wessex Street in Austin (laughs) So, everybody just said ‘yes, please come’.’’

ROOM 41 could be described as a triumph over tragedy. The song titles themselves speak of Cauthen’s state of mind at the time after a period of personal trauma, self-afflicted in many ways by burning the candle at both ends and not helped by some relationship breakdowns.

The song Cocaine Country Dancing mirrors a person in free fall, Can’t Be Alone and Angel mourn failed relationships and the car crash left behind. Some of those songs evolved from mammoth drinking sessions, staying up and writing from 4am until midday before crashing out and repeating the same cycle over a period of weeks. The track Slow Down must have been a reminder to him that things couldn’t continue at such a pace and possibly proved a welcome turning point for him.

“That’s exactly what that’s songs about, just slow down, it’s four in the morning again,” he agrees. “I was in that room for the whole time. Lay Me Down, the last song on the album, I had for about eight years, but the rest, came out of that room. It was a rough time. I just tried to dig myself out through my music, happiness came with my songs. It was like therapy, man, then I was like going crazy. I was writing fifteen to twenty songs a week and throwing them to my producer and he was saying ‘we like this, we don’t like this and we do like that one’.  I was just trying to forget about genre and push beyond all that and bring in the things I love about music. Rhythm and blues, jazz and fun, bring them all into one record. We wanted the sound thumpier and sounding cool.’’

Even more experimental than its predecessor, MY GOSPEL, the new album is quite unlike anything in country or Americana at present. An example is the thumping Freak, which lands heartily somewhere between country soul and hip hop. The autobiographical Big Velvet, with its Prince-like rhythm, is amply decorated by Cauthen’s belting yet soulful vocals. The music is quite unique, certainly not market driven at the behest of some record company guru or aimed at a particular listenership.

“No, I don’t care. I’m over caring. I’m done caring about targeting anyone. I want them to come to my music not me go to their music,” he states. “Well, you know at one point I had four different producers working with me. One from Def Jam records who makes hip hop records, he did all the modulation and auxiliaries.

“I had Niles City Sound producer Austin Jenkins and then I got Beau Bridge, my main producer who’s done all my records, and Matt Pence my drummer, who mixed the whole thing and helped me produce it at Echo Lab in Argyle Texas.

“We let all the cooks add their best recipes and flavour to it and the ego left the room. We just let everybody have an open canvas to be able to paint on, instead of me saying this is the way I want it painted and these are the colours. Everybody had their own brushes and paint and all of a sudden, we’ve got something that didn’t sound like anything else. I thought it ended up pretty cohesive even if I did think at one stage ‘holy shit what am I doing? What is this? Dr. Dre meets Waylon Jennings (laughs). Finally, we got to this point where I’m really digging this new sound.’’

Cocaine Country Dancing is a funked up, dark and frenzied adventure - and possibly the most striking track on the album. Its accompanying video is equally dazzling - check it out on You Tube - gloriously over the top, very much in keeping with the groove on the track. Its making proved eventful, too.

“A good friend of mine I’ve been trying to work with for years, Tim Ketchersid, is working out in Los Angeles. We finally got together and we got a budget good enough to get a guy like him and a crew like that. At night we smoked up, drank some and hung out until three or four in the morning and Tim and I wrote this whole idea of this mechanical bull. The idea was that the mechanical bull was actually someone’s vice, and everybody was getting thrown off it. The bull’s name was eightball. That’s what you call a measurement of cocaine. Basically, you ride on something that’s crazy and you’re gonna get thrown off.  And the electric bull operator was dreaming of being this electric cowboy, an incredible bull riding baddass. We just went with this crazy story. This guy, having vices, just getting thrown in the gutter. And even someone whose living in the gutter and making wrong decisions, even then they have dreams, that’s what that whole thing is.

“He dreamt of being the Big Velvet, a persona that’s bigger than him. We just leaned into that. It was fun. We had beautiful models from Los Angeles come in, all three of us got on the bull at one time and I had all these glass mirrors all over me, and on my boots. The bull came up and a model’s knee hits me in the nose, breaks my nose and my heels from the glass mirrors on my boots cut the two models. (Laughs) It was a wreck, a tragedy that just went down in the middle of our set that day. Beautiful models bleeding and me with a broken nose. Don’t hop on a mechanical bull folks, there’s no reason.’’

Only two weeks previously I had received an album by an artist named Elaina Kay for review. Cauthen produced it and this was obviously something I intended to raise. Little was I to know that he had been in a relationship with her and some of the material on ROOM 41 was most probably determined by its failure. The interview could very well have ended there and then, following on from what could have been perceived as a loaded and painful reference. But he was happy to respond calmly and with compassion.

“’Elaina had become my girlfriend and we were dating there for a minute. She had so many great songs, and really rose to the occasion and got that done.  I have nothing but goodwill for her and her career. When you’re producing or helping out, you come across people that have got talent but don’t know how to write, finish songs and record them. I see someone like me in them when I was young and I want to boost their timeline and learn things earlier, teach them some of the things I’ve learned, often by my mistakes. Help them grow as an artist. Like a flower, very delicate, too much sun and you die, too much water the same thing. You have to be super delicate with an artist. This business doesn’t pay well, so I gotta keep working, hustling, performing, hosting, producing. I’m always trying to keep irons in the fire.’’

In the run-up to the making of ROOM 41, Cauthen brought out a seven-track, mini album, HAVE MERCY. That was in 2018 and it brought him industry accolades with comparisons to Nelson, Kristofferson and Jennings ringing out from all quarters. With his professional career on the ascendancy it might have been expected that he would follow a similar path to both Sturgill Simpson and Chris Stapleton and win across-the-board industry recognition, and the commercial success that follows.

Unfortunately, this coincided with a crisis point in his life. He eventually found himself holed up in a room at the Belmont Hotel in Dallas where he lived out of a suitcase for the best part of two years. The tempestuous episode could only deliver one or two outcomes and fortunately for Cauthen and, with the support of a number of collaborators, it proved to be the catalyst for the deeply personal and powerful album that is, ROOM 41.

In the meantime, it’s back to work with a showcase lined up for that evening at The Anchor, an in-store performance at Grimey’s Record Store on Saturday afternoon and an appearance, his sixth, at The Grand Old Opry on Saturday night. I doubt if he’ll get to perform Cocaine Country Dancing on that hallowed stage. 

“’I give them a list of songs and they select three, I’ll do one broken down acoustic. They probably won’t let me do Cocaine Country dancing. It’s not like it’s me saying ‘go do cocaine,’ more like, let yourself go and dance. It’s just a song. I play backed by their musicians at The Opry, but I’m bringing two of my guys this time to help as I want to get some of my players up there. The rest of the band are mighty pissed about that. Following on from that it’s the West Coast, Mid-West then East Coast with Randy Houser all over the whole Unites States with five of us on stage, six including me.”

Before saying our goodbyes I’m curious to hear his take on religion given the numerous references across all his work and his role as a preacher. His response is brief but wholehearted:

“Spirituality is important to me. Religion is separation in my opinion. My ministry is in a bar playing to people getting pissed drunk.’’ 

En route to the hotel, I did wonder seriously whether an early morning call on Cauthen would find him in engaging form (given his late night/early morning work), or if he would turn up at all, despite music industry people assurances that he’d be there.

I had shared my concerns with my pal, Mike Ritchie, the presenter of the Mike Ritchie Show on Celtic Music Radio from Glasgow every Sunday afternoon, who accompanied me. Mike is part of our travelling entourage that enjoys AmericanaFest each year and his presence was twofold. An experienced journalist in a previous life, I invited him along to provide moral support if the interview was heading off the rails and, secondly, to join me for breakfast in the event of a ‘no show.’

Both Mike and I had the pleasure of meeting Cauthen when he performed at The Kilkenny Roots Festival a few years back. My introduction followed his solo performance at midday in The Pumphouse Bar, whereas Mike had enjoyed his company on a bus journey back to Dublin Airport at the end of the festival.

My worries disappeared the moment Cauthen caught sight of us. Making eye contact, he drew both hands from his shorts’ pockets, gunslinger style, and pointed each index finger in our direction with the greeting: “Glad to see two friendly faces.’’

Somehow, my feeling that things were going to work out just fine were spot-on.

Written by Declan Culliton Photograph by Anna Webber

Room 41 by Paul Cauthen on Velvet Rose/Lightning Rod Records is out now

Time spent in the company of Native Harrow

Native Harrow’s first trip to Ireland hasn’t exactly gone to plan. A shattered windscreen in their hired van was inflicted courtesy a of disturbed individual, randomly throwing stones at the oncoming traffic, shortly after their arrival at Dublin Port. Most certainly, not the traditional Emerald Isle welcome. Their arrival also coincided with the best part of two months rainfall crammed into six days.  To add insult to injury, they also had to cancel the last date of their tour, due to the arrival of the tail end of Storm Lorenzo, preventing their intended trip to Derry. Despite the unexpected setbacks, both Devin Tuel and Stephen Harmes are in splendid form when we meet for coffee in Alan Hanna’s Bookshop and Bark Coffee in Rathmines, close to where the couple are staying for their few days in Dublin.

 An invitation to perform at The Long Road Festival at Stanford Hall in Leicestershire in September, opened the doors for an extended seven week stay on this side of the pond for the duo, playing dates across the U.K and Ireland. It also offered the prospect of performing material from their most recent album Happier Now, which has been enjoying stellar reviews since its release a few months back. 

Native Harrow could be the nom de plume for former ballerina and classically trained singer Devin Teul. Equally it could refer to the two-piece band featuring Tuel and her musical partner Harmes. ‘’ It’s both of us but we’re never clear about it! I prefer it to be unclear as I don’t like to be put in a box and maybe having to stay there forever. Since the beginning of Native Harrow I’ve played music by myself and Steve has played music with a bunch of my friends. We started off playing music together in shows around town and eventually we decided we were good together and it worked. So, we came up with Native Harrow. It doesn’t really mean anything, just two words that sounded unique, which we thought would stand up.  I simply sing to Stephen and he builds from there. I might say,’ here is what I’m hearing the bass doing’ and he’ll translate that. It’s a joint effort and a duo first and foremost, even if I happen to be the front person. Native Harrow will always be the two of us, even if we add members to it. We’re in it together we do every part of it ourselves’’

The duo had two albums under their belt – Ghost (2015) and Sorores (2017) and had written Happier Now, prior to attracting the attention of Loose Records in the U.K. who subsequently offered them a record deal in support of the excellent Happier Now.  ‘’ We knew of Loose for the past couple of years through Carson McHone and Courtney Marie Andrews, who are both signed to the label. We lived in Nashville for a few years and had also heard of them there. We came to the UK in March of this year just to say we’re here and we have a new record. Let’s play some shows and see what happens. Stephen had invited Tom (Bridgeman) and Julia (Grant) to come to our show in London. We played a really quick set in London right before a really loud rock band. Stephen didn’t tell me until after our set that Loose were there and we spoke with them briefly. We played a few more shows in the UK and Tom asked us to come into their offices and chat about a few things which we did. And they offered us a record deal, which I’m still surprised by! So, it’s been a dream come true to come to a place where you’re not from and see your album in record shops and having the most supportive and wonderful people come to our shows’’

A prolific songwriter - thirty-seven songs grace their three albums to date - Teul’s writing especially excels when composing sorrowful and sombre songs, a trait which was influential in securing the deal with Loose. ‘’ Hard to Take is the saddest song on Happier Now and it’s oddly the song that helped to get us signed to Lose Records. It’s Tom Bridgewater’s favourite song!’’

It’s just one of many distressing yet beautiful songs in her back catalogue, using her art to confront testing issues, encounters and relationships. It’s also in contrast to the bubbly and self-confident individual sitting across the table from me. ‘’ It reflects a very private part of my personality. I like sad songs and think that songs are a place where we can grieve things that we aren’t comfortable to grieve openly. Not to say I don’t also write happier songs but I think just being happy in real life is far easier for me than being happy in song. Songs are not for me a place to always portray life as being perfect. A lot of artists that I’ve met and talked to would say they are happy people and music or dance or poems are places they go to when dealing with things that are maybe not so pleasant’’

Notwithstanding the content of her writing, the pace of Tuel’s writing and her ability to practically write on tap is impressive. Hard To Take was written in the studio during the recording of Happier Now when Stephen Harmes and drummer Alex Hall were on a coffee break! Harmes explains ‘’ What I’ve noticed with some of Devin’s songwriting and that song and a few more songs than usual on Happy Now, is how she writes songs very quickly. I’ve actually never seen her take more than literally twenty minutes to write a song. She’s experiencing something and attempting to deal with it and uses the song as a method to deal with it. Once she’s written the song, she no longer feels that way, but the song exists forever after that. And in one sense it may be funny to get up on stage and deal with these emotions every night and maybe that’s where actor training comes in. Then the other thing that I think is that if anyone else has to deal with their version of how it feels in that particular situation it can be very useful that that song exists and happy people or indeed people that tend to be sad most of the time can experience how she felt at the time that she wrote that’’

Tuel considers this, sips her peppermint tea and replies ‘’ I’m comforted by that; I think that’s why many people like music. There’s an element of feeling a bit hurt and misunderstood with something you felt totally alone in. That’s why some songs just hit me and I feel wow how am I able to capture that feeling thinking perfectly that I’m the only person that ever felt that way. And I like the idea of something existing that people can just go and be honest with themselves and feel sad or whatever’’ 

It’s not too easy to categorise Native Harrow’s sound. Comparisons to early Laura Marling, Judee Sill and Laurel Canyon are reasonable benchmarks. ‘’ The Laura Marling and indeed Laurel Canyon references are high praise as I’m highly influence by the 60’s and early 70’s so its high praise that those influences come through.’’

 They’ve even found shelter under that widening umbrella which is Americana ‘’ No harm having The Americana tag - it’s a catchall for the underdogs, we don’t make the same music as a lot of artists that are considered Americana, but we may end in the same box.’’ They lived in East Nashville for a while. Currently celebrated for its burgeoning Americana scene, I somehow wondered if their sound might not have been the best fit there.  ‘’ Stephen plays double bass, that’s his first instrument and we moved there as Stephen was doing a bunch of studio work there and was touring with other musicians living there. I found it really difficult in Nashville based on my sound and different tunings. I didn’t feel intimidated just sad that I didn’t feel accepted. I felt like an outsider. I would go to peoples shows and tried to branch out but it’s a hard nut to crack. The sound there is often Americana or country and the stuff that is not those is psychedelic rock and punk. Its highly competitive there which also drives a lot of the social situations and I struggled with that. I had so much competition in the dance world growing up that I thought ‘I’m done with that’. I just don’t have a competitive mindset. There’s room for everybody in my mind, music is for good and competition creates bad.’’

Music and dance have been foremost in Tuel’s world since an early age and despite the frustrations and challenges a career in the Arts entails, it appears impossible for her to shake off.

‘’I started ballet when I was three and danced all through elementary school and High School and even a little bit in University afterwards. I studied ballet and modern dance mostly. The singing came into play in High School, I started doing choir and taking voice lessons and doing musical theatre as well.  I got tired of in being in a rigorous ‘you have to do it this way’ sort of thing and I wanted to do it on my own terms. When I started taking voice lessons I definitely wanted to be on Broadway and wanted to do musical theatre’’

Her vocal training is clearly in evidence when Native Harrow perform at their Dublin gig in The Underground later that day. Each song is delivered note perfect and true to the studio recordings. There’s also a discipline and symmetry to her vocals, coupled with intense concentration, that bears witness to her proficiency to record in a couple of takes in the studio environment. I wondered if her dance training had also been beneficial to her now chosen career.

‘’Yes. You know I really have accepted that the training is so imbedded in me as a person. Because I started so young, I have a lot of discipline, I have become a perfectionist which sometimes is a problem but I think now as an adult I’m trying to bring more of the dance skills to my performances, whether it be the grace or more movement around the stage. Before I would have stood still on stage where now I’m letting myself relax more. Dance has allowed me get to a point where I can master my craft more freely and be more present in my body than beforehand. From an early age learning to be on time, work really hard at things, get things done and be your own critic but also perform.  It let me know that I can do anything I really want to do.’’

That discipline and structure also factors in dealing with the downside of the musical career. Rejections, unanswered emails, self-management and torturous touring, all the obstacles facing the professional musician. ‘’I’ve written about being absolutely exhausted from touring and choosing the life of a performer a number of times. I feel I’m almost destined to do as if I don’t really have a choice. No matter how many times I quit touring I’m just drawn back in. And on a really long tour you get to the point where you just feel absolutely isolated from everyone and everything other than the road and it’s a lonely and tiring place. It happens at every level, we have friends playing arenas and we have friends playing coffee shops and they say the same, it’s a really hard life. We know, we toured for a year living in our van sleeping in Walmart parking lots. It’s not something that we dwell on a lot but when things improve and you get signed to a record label you think about the nights not been able to sleep because of the cold But it’s what we have to do to make money and there’s day that really go well, where you feel on top of the world and this is why I do this and you have a run of  days that are just  awful, the highs are so high and the lows so low, but you’re just pulled back in every time.’’

So how has the touring experience in U.K. and Ireland been. ‘’ On this tour we had people come up to us and ask why we were playing at certain venues and that this is the worst place for you to play. But we’d never been here before and nobody else would answer our emails so it’s hard. Also knowing that there are other people making thousands of dollars when we are struggling. This is our first time here so we’re learning this time, travelling four thousand miles from our home. So, on the first time over we just go to the gigs hoping for the best and often expecting the worst. The flip side is people often come to the gig, they’re excited to see us, they dislike the venue, they tell us where we should play, their friend is a promoter and put us in touch. We had to come here this first time make the contacts and prove that we will come and do the work.’’

Some artists have long term goals, others survive by avoiding looking beyond the next tour or album. I get the impression that both Tuel and Harmes probably favour the former. ‘’Short term game plan is we go home from this and this is the first time we’ve been home for fall which is my favourite season. I’m looking forward to silly things at home, pumpkins and eating apple cider doughnuts and hanging out with my family. We’re also in the process of working on a new record, writing songs and figuring that out. Stay local for shows during the rest of the year and back to the UK/Europe twice next year.’’  Harmes considers her response, scratches his chin and replies. ‘’I have a ten-year kind of plan, with different options depending on how things go. We’re at the point where we want to be working with other people more, maybe not doing all of the booking ourselves and all of the other admin. In the UK we now have Loose to support us. In the States we self-released our records and we work with record stores there otherwise it’s all us. We’ve done over two hundred shows in both 2017 and 2018 and the booking takes a lot of time, it leaves very little time for anything else.’’ 

Written by Declan Culliton

Joe Nolan Interview

Canadian Joe Nolan was very much the wild card at Static Roots Festival in Germany earlier this summer. An artist unknown to the many of attendees, his solo showcase set was mesmerising, delivered to pin drop silence to the packed hall. Far from being an industry newcomer, the Edmonton Alberta resident has been recording albums for over ten years, including Goodbye Cinderella which was nominated for Canadian Folk Music Award Emerging Artist of the Year in 2011. After a gap of five years he released Cry Baby in 2018, the material in the main performed by him at Static Roots. Lonesome Highway met with the engaging young man in Germany back in July and more recently at AmericanaFest in Nashville to get the low down.  

Your performance at Static Roots Festival in Germany a few months back was thrilling. You appeared to be in another world on stage?

In moments like these I never really remember the performance, I remember getting on the stage at the beginning and off the stage at the end. Everything in between is almost like a trance. 

You told of being inspired to write a song the previous evening following witnessing John Murry play on stage. Tell me about that? 

Yes, John Murry’s vibe and performance transported me somewhere, I hadn’t seen real, true rock n roll like that in a long time. His pure artistry alone was so strong that it compelled me to run back to the hotel and write a song. “How I Used To Be”.

 Is the song a stayer? Will it be recorded?

 It’s a stayer, and I’ve already recorded it. Will very likely be on my new “secret” record

The music industry is a minefield at present for emerging artists. With such meagre financial pickings on offer, how difficult is it for an artist like yourself to essentially self manage, promote, write and perform. And do you have available support to assist and advice you?

 As Tom Waits says, it’s like riding down the river, in heavy currents, on the back of an alligator. There aren’t enough hours in the day to manage it all, I’ve got some help, but mostly I’m operating the majority of the ship myself.

 Your current album Cry Baby reads like a diary of a difficult and turbulent period in your life. An exorcism of sorts? 

It is a diary in many ways, and delicate to talk about, that’s why I like to put it in the music, sometimes it’s my only path of expression and freedom to release whatever is going on internally. The album is a statement album about coming out of a long, dark period of my life where I couldn’t see any light. Climbing out of the water… It also reveals many of my colours, I love blues, rock and roll, soul, punk, and sad sad songs. My vision was to create a story that could highlight all of those sides of me within one album.

You had a huge amount of material to choose from when selecting the songs that would make the cut. Is there a Cry Baby 2 in the offering or will those songs stay on the shelf?

We cut 15 songs when recording Cry Baby, so there are 5 songs that never made the cut. I’m not sure if I will ever release them, maybe they will be B-sides someday. In terms of carrying them over to another album or a Cry Baby 2, I don’t see that happening. My next album will take a different and new direction

The track Music In The Streets features Lydia Loveless. How did that come about?

I used to spend a lot of time in Toronto, I would pretend I was a university student and break into the prestigious music school where they had private rooms with grand pianos in them. I wrote this song on the piano one of those few days before getting busted. Lydia and I toured Europe together probably 6 years ago now, I did about 30 shows opening for her and her band. It was one of the greatest times of my life and Lydia is one of my all time favourite writers and performers, she is the real deal. After Music In The Streets was recorded, I asked her if she’d like to sing on it and she gladly agreed to do it. 

Your set in Germany featured a poetry reading, an art form less common by musicians today than it was some decades ago. Is this a feature you generally include on stage?

 It all depends on the vibe, the room, and how I’m feeling that day, but It’s definitely something I want to include in my shows, I’ve got lots of prose!

Tell me about the track Another Dead Poet?

This song is about my own personal experiences, feeling lost in the music industry for years, after being in a terrible record deal, a toxic relationship and drinking way too much. It’s a song for any misplaced artist, poet, painter, dancer… any flower in the concrete. I won’t get into it much more… 

Canada continues to produce outstanding artists in the folk/ Americana genre. There appears to more financial support there than most countries through agencies like Factor. Has this been of benefit to you? 

We are very lucky, although it is still very difficult as an independent artist to be approved for most of this available funding. I have been fortunate enough to receive some help a couple of times.

You recently performed at a The Edmonton Folk Festival. A dream come true? 

A dream come true, as a kid I always envisioned myself being on that stage, so it happening was pretty surreal.

You appear to be in a much better place presently. What inspires your song writing these times? 

I don’t have an answer for this, it’s never changed regardless of the situation, you always have to be open to a song, if it’s flowing through you, no matter what.

What artists currently performing do you most admire, or do you get the time space to listen to others?

 I’ve been really digging another couple Canadians at the moment - Andy Shauf and Leif Vollebekk. Jeffrey Foucault, Chuck Prophet are a couple that have been on heavy rotation this tour.

You have recently got your visa to perform in The States for a year. How do you intend spending the time there, primarily touring or are you considering recording there? 

I’ve had the greatest time here, I’ve got one more show left with The Long Ryders tonight in Washington, DC. Then I drive home to Alberta, 42 hours, in my 2003 dodge caravan with a makeshift bed in the back that I built. 

You most certainly turned heads with your showcase in Germany. Any plans to return to Europe and Ireland in particular? 

I’ll be returning to Europe in February and March 2020 with the release of the the 7 songs I recorded in Sweden this year. It will be a limited edition run on 10” inch Vinyl. I’m also hoping to return for some summer festivals, I’m truly hoping to make it to Ireland for Kilkenny Roots at some point.

Interview by Declan Culliton

Kevin Kinney (Drivin' n Cryin') Interview

No sign of taking the foot off the gas for Atlanta Georgia rockers Drivin N Cryin. Over three decades on the road and they’re still raising hell! Their recent release Live The Love Beautiful is their 19th studio recording and it’s a gem! Front man Kevin Kinney has also released nine solo albums throughout his career and remains as committed and enthusiastic to his art as ever. Drivin N Cryin play a number of showcases at AmericanaFest in Nashville next month and we caught up with the passionate Kinney for a whistle stop journey across an accomplished and continuing career for him and his band.

It’s incredible to think it’s 33 years since Drivin N Cryin first performed, yet you’re still going as strong as ever. How does the industry weigh up today for you by comparison to your early career? 

I prefer it in a lot of ways. I love the one or two-hit wonders. I love the sixties bubblegum era. There are so many fantastic options out there right now.

The caliber of musicians is out of sight!!I liked having a record company behind us, and I thought if we ever lost that, it would be over. Island Records was a dream come true for me. They helped us develop our music by paying for all those early recording sessions where we spent a week getting drum sounds! But I think not having a company behind us for the last 25 years has made us strong and independent.

I don’t really love paying for our recordings, but I love not having to ask somebody about what they think about our art.

Like so many artists, you often name-check The Ramones as being hugely influential in your chosen career. Was it their simplicity and rawness that drew you to them?

Well, growing up in Milwaukee in the seventies was tough. The Ramones were a breath of fresh air and inspiration for me. There was no way I was ever going to play like Jimmy Page. On July 3, 1977, I saw The Ramones live at Summerfest in Milwaukee. I had their records, and I think Leave Homejust came out.

Their simplicity was so beautiful, especially in juxtaposition to all the guitar solo bands on the bill. They walked on stage and were fucking terrifying!!

1-2-3-4!!Nobody but bikers and hoodlums wore leather jackets back then.

Just amazing!A few years later, I became friends with Arturo Vega and Johnny. We traded baseball cards, and I would always drive him around looking for movie posters and cards. I didn’t have a band. I was just a construction worker, but I got a great insight watching them. I learned a lot about merchandising, lighting, and graphic design from Arturo. I learned a lot about fans and discipline from Johnny. I remember one night, I was standing on Johnny’s side of the stage, and he came over to me between songs and kind of scolded me. “Shows out there! “He liked it when I would give him a review of the sound, the people, and how the setlist was going. I miss them all. 

MC5 also appears to have had an impact on you? 

The MC5 was from just one state away from where I grew up. The late ’60s and early ’70s were very political in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Detroit. In 1978, I was a roadie for a band called The Haskels.They were a working-class, socialist-leaning band.

They turned me on to a whole new library of music: New York Dolls, Mott the Hoople, Buddy Holly, and definitely MC5.Milwaukee was a socialist city from the ’40s to '60s.

So, the MC5 combined my interest in social discovery and rock ‘n’ roll, which was very much a blueprint for what we are now.

When you moved to Atlanta you were personally toiling by day at a sewage treatment and playing folk clubs at night. Was it an easy decision to kick the day job and follow your dream?

It was. I was really into Dylan at the time, specifically “The Times They Are a-Changin’.” I kind of gave up trying to be a professional artist, but then, something happened. Tim ( Nielsen) quit his popular Atlanta band along with his drummer, and we started this thing. Rock ‘n’ roll with words about how I saw the world.After the first show he handed me $300!!!It was easy to quit my job after that!!!

The underground music scene in Atlanta appears to have been vibrant when you guys were cutting your teeth as a young band. Did you consider yourselves part of a ‘movement’ at that time, even though your sound distanced itself somewhat from the alt-rock and grunge scene at that time? 

We had a lot of friends in the Atlanta scene, but there weren’t really any that got signed back then. Athens was really a bigger deal.Atlanta was never really accepted in a lot of scenes in the mid-eighties. It wasn’t really until the late ’80s, early ‘90s that The Black Crowes, Collective Soul, and others brought more attention to the city.

We were fortunate enough to kind of create our own treehouse of sorts.We got a lot of help from the REM office and band about how to maintain your independence and still cooperate with a company.

You swiftly developed a large local following in Atlanta. Was it record company pressure your personal ambition to break out and seek national recognition?

It was our own pressure to break out, but the tour support really helped! We all have that wanderlust in our bones. We’ve known where every great coffee shop and book store is since 1987! We know we are different. Nobody said it would be fair. They warned you before you went out there. There’s always a chance to get restarted to a new world; a new life, scarred but smarter. It’s special. You’re not just singing about some sort of “getting drunk” situation. You’re trying to enlighten yourself, and someone else getting inspired is a byproduct of that.

Fly Me Courageous, released on Island Records, was a commercial success and a huge seller back in 1991. In hindsight, were you comfortable signing to a major label and did they influence your musical direction at that time?

MTV, MTV, MTV. I guess the video really helped with that one and the gulf war timing as well. It was a perfect storm of sorts. But I think the effect on us musically wasn’t what I wanted; there were too many cooks for me. I don’t love being in the studio. I had no clue as to how things were working, so I just said yes, a lot! I was from a working-class neighborhood and family, so I did what the boss wanted mostly. The last 25 years have been much more like I wish the first ten could have been. It was rare to have a record deal, let alone a major, so I felt an obligation to all the musicians that would not have had that opportunity. I should have been more honest with myself. Everything is so much easier now that I’m not worried about other people taking my place in line. There is no line. There is no place. There’s just art.

Throughout your career, you’ve always been involved in side projects, whether it be solo albums or diversions such as Sun Tan Angel Revival. Were these both vehicles to allow you to create music outside the Drivin n Cryin signature sound?

I write a lot, and sometimes I just run out of space on Drivin records. But I am Drivin N Cryin. Drivin N Cryin is me. I think it’s funny when it gets so separated, at least as far as the LP’s go, but live shows are different. If Tim is not playing bass, it’s not Drivin N Cryin. But, I need the solo ventures I do to enhance the effect on the band. I have tried out a lot of arrangements in my solo bands and tours, and these arrangements are now staple parts of our show.

Given the current resurgence in folk music, have you any ambitions to record a stripped back solo album in the future?

Maybe in a couple of years, but right now, I’m just doing the band. There’s always plenty of time for me to strip down, but right now, this line up with Tim, Dave, and Laur is making me really happy. I WANT to play, and it wasn’t always like that.

I have a couple of unreleased solo projects I might release in the upcoming future. One of them is an EP from the EP series called Mac Dougal Blues Revisited, which is a record produced by Scott McCaughey. The series features new versions of songs from MacDougal blues. I love it. I’ll try to bring you a copy.

Tell me about the rationale in recording your three EP’s/Mini Albums between 2012 and 2014. Was it your objective to frame three individually themed albums?

It was a deconstruction thesis. I wanted to offer the fans an opportunity to create their own playlists from the four different eras we showcase - all of our roots. Psychedelic, punk, folk, Zeppelin, Stones, Archie’s, Dylan. I just loved recording five songs at a time. It’s much easier to complete a short story arc that way.Live The Love Beautifulis more of a movie, whereas the EPS were more of a series of short films with different directors and cities. Ardent in Memphis was my favorite studio!

You’ve rightfully earned a reputation as a killer live band. You’ve never lost that enthusiasm, whether performing in arenas or smaller clubs. Do you still get the same buzz playing live?

Every show is my last first and every show is my last ...so that keeps me thinking

Your recent release Live The Love Beautiful is business as usual for Drivin n Cryin.  It comes across as a recording by a bunch of happy people! Were all the songs written since the EP recordings or were some rescued from your archives?

Just a couple of the songs were from the original demo recorded on 9/10 the day before 9/11 - one of the songs is this song called “Spies.’’ I think it’s a great garage type of song, but I did not want to release it in the climate of America and shelved it. To this day, I’m a little trepidatious about it. America is a very strange place right now; it’s a place I never thought it would be. I can’t wait to write new songs when this hurricane has passed. It’s hard to write songs and not add in topical situations. The reference to those situations may not exist in 20 years. Like I’m glad I didn’t write about Ronald Reagan because people don’t really care about him anymore. Overall, I am very happy and satisfied. I think we’ve got a good thing going, and I’m glad that it sounds like you can hear that.

Springsteen and Mellencamp are references that often feature in describing your writing. I’ve no doubt this must be personally satisfying, but do you ever think a ’’Kinney on Broadway’’ run would be more welcomed - and a nice pension pot - than all the accolades?

I thought about that years ago, but I think I would be more inclined to have a Kinney and Broadway puppet show. The music will be live, the stories will be live, but there will be puppeteers acting out the improv. I think that would be fun and relative. I loved the “Springsteen on Broadway,” but I think my Broadway stay might only last one weekend!!!!

You’re hitting the road once more for months of touring the album. That life energy seems to be in your veins. It is a case of touring because you want to or touring because you have to at this stage?

If I don’t want to play, I won’t play. I want the audience to know that I’m there because I want to be. I really love this version of the band, but I’m trying to warn audiences that I love to play the new songs. I will play a few songs that you know, of course, because I’m not here to test people, but I love the fact that I can do new songs that are as good as the first tour we ever did. That’s what I love about SXSW.I only play the new songs. If people hate the eight songs that I play, so be it. That’s what brand new bands that go there have to deal with. We are no better than anyone else. We are all artists trying to share.

Bands like yourselves got great exposure across local and college radio stations when you were kicking off your career. How difficult is in today's market to get radio exposure and survive with ever reducing physical album sales?

We have an advantage that people know us from those days, and they come to see us. Unlike the old days, when people had to witness the show and then venture to a record store (because it was unheard of to sell your own records at your show), it’s kind of a relief that we are not only the record company, but we are also the record store. It was a relief when iTunes came around and rescued a lot of, not only mine but also my friends’ early recordings that, when they were cut out on vinyl, were very difficult to find. You actually had to spend gas money, travel around, and hope that some record show would have one of my albums from 1987.I love the world as it is now for recordings.

For me, if one word best describes Kevin Kinney, it is ‘integrity’. Any regrets looking over your shoulder? 

In all honesty, not really. I think I’ve been very honest with myself, kept my expectations reasonable. I’m very proud of who we are and what I am. I look forward to 10 more years of recording and singing and sharing live music when possible. I’m also satisfied when I sit in my chair, put up all of my albums on top of the fireplace, and look at all of them!!!Good lord, that’s a lot of miles and shows!!!What was I thinking!!???

Live The Love Beautiful

What’s Wrong With Being Happy

Free is Not Free

Love is Not Free

But Freedom is Love

I don’t know who said it first, but, if you love something, you could set it free. I like it that I’m not holding onto this, hoping that this rock ‘n’ roll life will save me from anything. It’s entertainment. I’m singing to myself, and if you want, you can listen.

I don’t want to be your favorite band necessarily, just one of the 30 bands you might see in a year would be fine with me. Just give us a chance if you will. We’re different. If you want to make a difference, you got to be different. That’s the deal.

Interview by Declan Culliton

Joe Harvey Whyte & David Murphy Interview

With origins dating back to the 19thCentury, the steel guitar found its way to Hawaii by courtesy of Mexican settlers. Originally played on the lap, the instrument was a modification to the Spanish guitar, whereby the strings were raised by a half inch, creating what was at that time a quite distinctive sound. Joseph Kekuku is given credit for the invention and his relocation to America at the turn of the 20thCentury introduced and taught the instrument to a host of enthusiastic guitarists. Tours of Europe followed, where Kekuku brought the instrument to the attention of large audiences in both London and Paris. 

Over the next two decades the instrument became a feature in both Western Swing and Country music. Still played on the lap at that time, it eventually evolved into a console unit. As Country music merged into Rockabilly and Rock’n’Roll, the pedal steel guitar continued to play a pivotal part. A statement of the versatility of the instrument has been its capacity to crossover into a host of genres outside its traditional home. Jazz, pop, rock, gospel, Indian, folk, Americana and African music have all been graced by its characteristic sound. 

Requiring the co-ordination of two hands, knees and feet, it’s considered to be one of the most difficult musical instruments to master. Committed students of the instrument in America enjoy the luxury of available tuition from the many accomplished players and teachers. Not so fortunate in U.K. and Ireland, where keen to develop playing skills, pupils were often restricted to manuals to self-teach the instrument. 

Most encouraging are the new generation of players close to home who have championed the instrument, despite the somewhat limited market in Europe. Our own David Murphy and U. K’s Joe Harvey Whyte are two examples of players whose determination to master the pedal steel has gained them both reputations are two of the finest players in Europe. Despite their expertise, they both still consider themselves as students of the instrument as they recently explained to Lonesome Highway.

Pedal steel is not generally the first instrument to be picked up by young budding musicians. Did you start your musical journey on another instrument?

JHW:I think the pedal steel would be an incredibly difficult instrument to start out on.  I definitely benefited from having played guitar since age 10 and from messing around on lap steels for a few years before picking up the pedal steel.  

DM:I had a deep love of music from a very young age – my parents had a pub/dancehall when I was very little and so I couldn’t even avoid music if I’d wanted to. When I started school, I learned piano as well as joining the local brass band. I got into playing guitar when I started secondary school and that was it, I was gone on a lifelong quest! Blues, rock, folk, country, bluegrass – all the great recorded folk music of the last 100 years - consumed me. I played a lot of fingerstyle acoustic – John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Bert Jansch - and from here experimented with open tunings and eventually I started to get more curious about slide guitar in particular. This was the gateway to lap steel guitar and dobro and very soon pedal steel guitar specifically.

Your first memory of hearing the pedal steel and was it love at first sight?

JHW: You know what, I think it was hearing David Lindley’s lap steel solo on “These Days” by Jackson Browne that really turned me on to the sound and emotional power of slide instruments.  The way he makes that instrument scream and cry at the same time just did something to me.  The first track I remember hearing pedal steel on though was probably Linda Ronstadt’s version of “It Doesn’t Matter Anymore”. I think the steel player was Sneaky Pete Kleinow. That sound he makes just pulls at your heartstrings. A friend once described it as chrome tears.  

DM: Growing up in 1980’s north county Cork, there was a lot of country music around; I’m sure subconsciously I was hearing the instrument all the time, without knowing what it was. I can remember seeing it on TV and it was intriguing and somewhat mysterious; that crying, swelling sound was instantly emotive and stood out. When I discovered it properly as I was diverging and exploring as a guitarist, it certainly became a deep fascination of which I just had to explore more.

Were you influenced initially by country music or particularly by the instrument itself?

JHW:By the sounds of my answer to the last question, yes.  But it wasn’t specifically the genre that grabbed me, it was the sound of the instrument itself.  My obsession with pedal steel has taken me on some really interesting listening adventures.  From Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories record to a hip-hop collaboration between Aphex Twin’s Luke Vibert and BJ Cole.  Over the years though, I’ve ended up listening to and being involved in creating a lot of country music. Though that is mainly because the genre is often when you find the most pedal steel.  Deep down I’d like to follow in the footsteps of players like BJ Cole, Geir Sundstøl, Johan Lindström and Greg Leisz who take the instrument into new areas, opening up the possibilities for pedal steel. 

DM:  Probably more by the instrument itself. I was always into cinematic and instrumental music growing up and that’s how I became interested in pedal steel firstly. In the early 2000’s I was really getting into bands and artists like Calexico, Richmond Fontaine, Neko Case, Daniel Lanois. A lot of their records featured the instrument in a very tasteful and minimal context in the arrangements yet could be very stirring and exotic. It can be evocative and a beautiful texture when used sparingly and subtly and that was how I came to like it initially. Once I was listening out for pedal steel, it emerged more clearly to me on so many classic records that I was already familiar with by artists like Joni Mitchell, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan. This then became the gateway for me to delving into a lot of the classic country and western swing from which it first emerged and was in its hey-day and that is really where you get an education on all the best players of the instrument.

What model did you first play?

JHW:My first steel was a double neck Sho Bud Pro III. The thing was a monster. I only wanted a single neck steel but in this country pedal steels are hard to come by. I found it up for sale on the British Steel Guitar Forum. At the time I knew nothing about pedal steels, they seemed so intricate with hundreds of moving parts; I was scared of buying something that had issues.  Fortunately, I’d just met an experienced steel player called Matt Park. He very kindly offered to drive me up to Birmingham where the steel was located and check that it worked ok. His first words were, “she’s a bit of a beast!”. It was 35kgs. I’d never lifted anything that heavy. But it sounded amazing! I was sold.  Matt and I drove it back home, he made some adjustments to make it easier for me to play and I was off! I used that steel on everything I did for the first two or three years of playing.  

DM:My first pedal steel was a beginner-model Carter Starter that I bought in 2005. It was a fantastic instrument to learn on – it was reasonablyaffordable and also had the configuration and setup common to most pro models. I had that for 4 years before I bought my current guitar which was built for me by David Jackson, son of the great Harold ‘Shot’ Jackson of the Sho-Bud guitar company. Along with Buddy Emmons in the 1950’s and 60’s, they pretty much standardised the instrument and were the first to mass produce pedal steel guitars. I’ve had the same guitar since and it’s been serving me fairly well.

Tell me about your initial learning process with the instrument? 

JHW: I’m lucky enough to have started playing pedal steel in the Internet age. I’ve heard stories from older steel players that in the past finding anything to do with pedal steel was like finding a needle in a haystack. I’ve been able to find so much literature on the steel, tuition videos and recordings of the instrument, I couldn’t possibly go through it all in a lifetime.  Matt Park, who I mentioned earlier was a real help. He gave me a few simple exercises to do which helped me get over the initial shock of playing an instrument which requires you to play it with all 4 of your limbs! But for the most part I’ve been self-taught. There also used to be a little group of pedal steel players who’d meet at the back of a pub in south London every few months. It was organised by a steel player called Jon Shaklock. We’d sit around taking it in turns to play along to a backing track and swap notes. Those afternoons were so enjoyable and useful to me as a new player.  

DM: When I bought my first pedal steel, YouTube didn’t really exist and so playing along to records and learning from books was my first foray into getting to grips with the instrument. There were no teachers around either. There is a very good online community and network of pedal steelers around the world on the Steel Guitar Forum, which is a huge resource. This proved to be invaluable to me when it came to learning about tunings, maintenance of the instrument, pickups, playing techniques or just learning new songs and discovering artists and players new and old. There was then also just the simple case of getting out there and playing as much as I could in a live setting, seeing how best to accompany singers, play alongside other musicians and start to think like a pedal steel player.

With so many variations in playing, there does not seem to be a gospel or guide to playing the pedal steel. Does this make the learning process particularly arduous?

JHW:There’s a saying amongst the pedal steel community: “There’s as many ways of playing pedal steel as there are players”. I think that’s true. I certainly have my idiosyncrasies which I always remind my students about. Jeff Newman started a steel guitar school in the USA the 80s I believe. He has some set ways of playing which I’m sure I’ll regret not learning. But for some reason I’ve always resisted the idea that there’s only one way to do something. Sometimes you figure out really interesting things by doing them ‘wrong’. 

DM:It is quite daunting starting off, for these very reasons. It is a bit of a minefield. As well as being a rare instrument to come across, it can be awkward to move around and setup. Given that the string tension is being manipulated, raised and lowered with every move, tuning it can be very challenging. Mechanically, the whole instrument is a series of compromises essentially. It’s then a complex instrument to get to grips with operating: it literally involves both hands, both knees and both feet. It’s very sensitive and nuanced physically to play. You need to have your wits about you – it’s not the best for playing with a few pints of stout on board! As well as all this, there are not that many players in Ireland – certainly not outside the showband scene or south of the border – and so it took me a while before I discovered any other players in these islands who I could get to know. Even then, it’s not unusual to find that some players play slightly different variants or configurations of the instrument and so will have different styles. This makes it all the more interesting though, I think.

Do you still consider yourself a student of the instrument? 

JHW:Definitely. I don’t think you ever stop learning. The instrument is always teaching you something. The different tunings and pedal/lever combinations allow for multiple ways of approaching the same notes or scales. I knew virtually nothing about music theory before I started playing pedal steel. Following the internal logic of the instrument was like taking a crash course in chordal theory and harmony. I’ve been playing about 5 years now and when I sit down at the steel, as long as I’m open to it, new things emerge.  

DM:Absolutely – there is no end to learning. I’m always listening to players new and old and seeing what I can learn or pick up. It’s a challenging instrument. I had formal lessons for the first time last year and it proved to me that really the pedal steel offers up new things that are always waiting to be discovered. I also play the earlier incarnations of the instrument – the acoustic dobro which is a 6-string square-neck resonator guitar used in a more bluegrass setting as well as 8-string lap steel for more traditional Hawaiian and western swing music. They all use different tunings and approaches but come from the same family essentially. Playing different styles of music and accompanying within different ensembles ensures that I’m kept on my toes!

What period do you reckon to be the golden era for the instrument?

JHW:That’s a hard question. If we’re talking about a golden era of people listening to and appreciating pedal steel, I think that’s got to be a period stretching from the late 50s to the early 70s. The instrument had been born in the early 50s with players like Alvino Rey and Bud Issacs who added pedals to regular (straight) steel guitars. And by the 60s it was really starting to take hold. Back then if you were in a country band and didn’t have a pedal steel it wasn’t really country. Then the rise of great players like Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, Red Rhodes, Curly Chalker and so many others helped to put pedal steel on the map.  But…. if we’re talking about a golden age of pedal steel being used in new and inventive ways. I think that’s happening right now. There are players like Susan Alcon using pedal steel in Avant Garde Jazz and like I mentioned earlier, BJ Cole and others have paved the way for other genres to consider pedal steel as an expressive tool beyond country music.  

DM:I suppose the 1950’s and 60’s were transformative and really set the bar high in terms of the invention and creativity of the players of those times. They were absolute pioneers and trailblazers in the evolution of the instrument. What was most impressive was how the mechanics developed often in isolation – for example, a guy in Texas could be adding a pedal to his steel guitar whilst another in California was adding a lever of some sort – with neither of them aware of the other’s work. It’s fascinating to think about! It was a time of amazing singers and songwriters and the standard of players needed to match that. By the turn of the 1970’s, it’s nice to see that the instrument didn’t just die off as being out of fashion but that it found its way into country rock with the Bakersfield sound… appearing on plenty classic coming out of Laurel Canyon... Jimmy Page using it on the early Led Zeppelin records to nice effect and so it lived on. Whilst it probably won’t have quite the same impact culturally ever again, it is here to stay and will always have its place, I think. 

Are your favourite players current performers or from bygone times?

JHW: I have favourites from the past and from now. Buddy Emmons always blows me away. His command over the instrument is unrivalled by any other player past or present, in my opinion. He can play jazz on that thing like it’s a sax. Curly Chalker was pretty damn good at that too. He put the steel through a Leslie which I love the sound off. Speedy West also!  As for living players. Greg Leisz has been a favourite of mine for a long time. He has such a subtle touch. He always serves the song. There’s a live version of Hickory Wind by Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings, Leisz doesn’t make the steel sound country, he just makes it drift in and out like waves. BJ Cole too. He always comes at things from an angle you didn’t even know existed. 

DM:A mix of both definitely. There is so much to be learned from the older players as they really set such a high standard. Buddy Emmons (the Hendrix of pedal steel arguably), Pete Drake (Bob Dylan/George Harrison amongst so many others), Lloyd Green, Speedy West are some of my earlier favourites. Of today’s players, I really like Paul Brainard (Richmond Fontaine, M.Ward), Paul Niehaus (Calexico, Iron and Wine), Eric Heywood (Tift Merritt, Over The Rhine), Spencer Cullum (Caitlin Rose, Steelism), Tucker Jackson (The Delines). Russ Pahl and Greg Leisz have taken the instrument to really interesting new places. Recently I’ve discovered a guy named Rich Hinman whose playing has absolutely blown my mind. He plays with kd lang and Vulfpeck amongst others but has a really interesting and beautiful approach to playing the instrument that’s very much in a contemporary manner.

One player who is overlooked enormously and was pretty much undiscovered is Vance Terry who died about 20 years ago after having lived an extraordinary life. He only made one record (as far as I know), a sort of live bootleg album called ‘Brisbane Bop’. He and a guitar player named Jimmie Rivers played amped-up western swing and country jazz – or hillbilly bop – as residents in a fairly rough nightclub in San Francisco in the early 1960’s, a time when the whole genre was pretty much past its prime. His playing is some of the most amazing I’ve ever heard. It’s somewhere between New Orleans jazz and Texas country and Chicago blues and they tackle some big-band standards too with a small ensemble. He makes the instrument sound like a whole orchestra at times – the chords and melodies and voicings he summons up are mind-blowing! I don’t think anybody before or since has played pedal steel quite like it. That record really is like something from an alternate universe! Check it out, you won’t be disappointed!

Is there one particular player whose style has predominately influenced your playing?

JHW:I think Greg Leisz and BJ have had the biggest impact on my playing. I’ve had to fill his shoes a couple of times which was daunting! He played pedal steel on a record made by a Norwegian artist called Susanne Sundfor. I ended up playing some shows as part of her band and I was so honoured to be giving my own take on Greg Leisz’s steel parts. The album is called “Songs For People in Trouble”. It’s a beautiful record and Greg Leisz playing is enchanting. I met BJ Cole just as I started learning pedal steel. I had a couple of ‘lessons’ with him. Most of the lessons consisted of us talking about the instrument, players, tunings, albums. Very little teaching (in the traditional sense) actually took place. But somehow, I always came away having learnt something new, or having had some new ideas. He introduced me to some incredible music and played me LPs is never even heard of. One of my favourites was Buddy Emmons playing pedal steel through a talk box on a Ray Price song called “Burned Fingers”. It wasn’t just Pete Drake that did that. Saying all that, I reckon the biggest influence BJ had on me was when he came to see one of gigs and fell asleep. If that doesn’t change the way you play, I don’t know what will.  

DM:The LA-based session player Greg Leisz has probably had the biggest influence on my playing. His contributions to so many amazing records over the past 20 years have been, to me, a textbook example of how the pedal steel can be so effective when applied sparingly and organically, enhancing a song or recording without showboating. He plays the song as opposed to the instrument and it’s always the right notes in the right places with the right tone and feel and nothing more. His playing with Bill Frisell is on another level altogether and is a benchmark of modern pedal steel playing, I think.

Mentioning U.K. player B.J. Cole, has worked in pop, jazz, ambient and experimental music notwithstanding roots and country over the past forty years. Are there still opportunities for you outside roots and country music?

JHW: If you listen to B’Js ambient records or his work on The Apollo album by Daniel Lanois, Brian Eno and Icebreaker, you get a sense that there is real potential for the pedal steel outside of country music. You get that with Geir Sundstoel, Johan Lindström and some other non-traditional players too. For me the instrument has always had this ethereal, other-worldly sound to it. It’s sustained and searching notes have tended to resonate more deeply with me than the chicken picking type playing. Don’t get me wrong, I love that, it’s fun! But when you slow things down and use the instrument in an ambient context it really begins to open up new doors. 

DM:I’d like to think so. I’m a big admirer of what BJ Cole has done over the years. I’m interested in so many different genres of music although I don’t get approached generally by artists too far from the folk and roots scenes. It’s something I’d love to change as I’m keen to forge new roads in pedal steel as both a main instrument as well as accompaniment. There have been some good European players emerging in recent years who deserve to be heard and are making new and interesting music on pedal steel that is a world-removed from its country-music origins – Maggie Bjorklund from Denmark, Geir Sundstol from Norway, Joe Harvey Whyte from the UK are some that come to mind. Pushing boundaries and exploring new terrain is important I think for the development of the instrument.

Which style do you feel most comfortable in, rock, country, electro, classical or ambient music?

JHW: I’m lucky enough to get to play with lots of different acts with different styles. One day I could be on a traditional country gig and the next, or even later that day it might be a folk / singer-songwriter gig. Then maybe the day after I’ll be playing ambient sounds as background music for a life drawing class. I love this instrument so much that I’m just happy playing it in whatever context or genre I find myself in and connecting with the music and the other musicians. But if I had to choose one… I think improvised ambient/experimental music is where I feel most at home. Playing that kind of music like dreaming whilst still being awake. 

DM:I’m probably most comfortable in a traditional rock’n’roll band setting but I like to be challenged. Playing as part of a duo, for example with an acoustic guitar, ensures that you need to be on top of your game; there’s nowhere to hide. I’m pretty comfortable in that setting too. Playing in a bigger band setting allows more breathing space for definite. I’ve been recently working on my own music again after a long spell, incorporating pedal steel into modern classical and ambient compositions along with piano, synths and strings. It’s very interesting and it’s nice to be writing with pedal steel in mind. I’m curious to see where it goes and of course am cautious that it doesn’t step into dull or boring ‘fusion’ territory – it’s a fine line!

Is there sufficient demand in Europe to generate enough work for you and have you considered moving to The States to further your career?

JHW:A lot of people ask me about moving to the US. And yeah there’s probably plenty of work out there. But...I kinda like it here. I like being in Europe (and whatever happens with Brexit I will still be considering myself a European citizen) There’s definitely enough work to go around here. There’s a wealth of talent in the U.K. and also in mainland Europe, plus North American acts come over all the time and often need a steel player.  On top of all of that, in the US there’s kids about 15 years old who can shred on steel better than I’ll ever be able to!  

DM:I don’t play full-time for a living and so I can afford to be selective when it comes to choosing what projects or artists I get involved with. I considered moving to the US when I finished college – I applied for a green card – but it never materialised. I don’t regret it, especially considering the way things are there at the moment politically and socially. There does seem to be a more open-minded approach to pedal steel in Europe too which doesn’t exist on the same level in the US, I think. It can be pigeonholed very easily there. Separately to that, I do think Ireland produces some of the finest artists and musicians on the planet considering our small population – we always have done. Culturally, I don’t think there is a richer place than Ireland for music. So, I’m more than happy to live here and be able to work with some of these great singers and songwriters and musicians.

Have you visited Nashville to check out the talent and styles there and what did you learn from the experience? 

JHW:I went to Nashville a couple of years ago and it really changed me. The level of playing there is off the chart.  I almost wanted to give up.  I ended up coming back to London and setting up a Honky Tonk night to try and recreate a bit of that Nashville sound. I met Lloyd Green when I was out there and that was pretty amazing. I went to his house, we had a chat about The Byrds, Jonny Paycheck and then he sat down and played his original Sho~Bud steel flawlessly. He’s over 80 now too! Along with JD Maness, Lloyd Green played on Sweet Heart of The Rodeo. He’s a seriously good country player. But when I was there he played an instrumental composition he’d just written called “Venus Moon”. Not country at all, who knew he was taking the steel to outer space too?  

DM:I first visited Nashville in 2007, around the time I first got into playing steel. Having seen some amazing players in the flesh, I was motivated even more to dedicate myself to the instrument. I have since been back a number of times over the years and always make sure to check out what is going on in terms of pedal steel. Most recently, I was there last year having received an Individual Artist Bursary Award from Cork City Arts Council to develop and enhance my playing. I had one-on-one tuition with two great teachers and players, Buck Reid and Pete Finney. It was invaluable as I’d never had any formal lessons ever before and what I learned has undoubtedly improved my technique as well as the artistic approach I have to the instrument.

Your most memorable playing experience to date?

JHW:That’s a real tough one. A few years ago, I got to play at The Royal Albert Hall opening up for Jools Holland with an amazing singer and friend, Beth Rowley. I remember seeing Jackson Browne and David Lindley there as a teenager. That’s pretty up there! Recording at Abbey Road studio 2 with my good friends The Magic Numbers was pretty wild too. That room is such an inspiring place to be in. The sounds that have bounced around those walls. I didn’t feel worthy to be on such hallowed ground. But the most memorable experience has to be performing at Union Chapel in London as part of Tony Visconti’s life in music concert. I did a solo version of a Brian Eno and David Bowie ambient song called Moss Garden. It was the first time I’d ever played a solo piece on steel and it was in front of about 1000 people. And in this beautiful old church too. It was pretty magical. Later in the set I played pedal steel with Tony Visconti, Stuart Copeland, Bob Geldof and Imelda May. The whole thing was being filmed for a Sky Arts TV programme too so I was nervous as hell!  

DM:I’ve been very lucky to play with some wonderful singers, writers and musicians. A really warm reception for John Blek and The Rats’ first show at Kilkenny Roots many years ago was a highlight for me personally, being a long-time attendee and friend of the festival. Headlining with both ‘The Rats and Richmond Fontaine in the Set Theatre a few years later stands out too, given how much an influence Richmond Fontaine were during my early years learning pedal steel. I’ve had some great experiences to date with The Delines as well as with Willy Vlautin as part of his book tours. I’ve been lucky to get to tour and record with some of the finest artists Ireland has produced in recent times – John Blek, Anna Mitchell, The Lost Brothers, Malojian, The Remedy Club, Greenshine are some that spring to mind.

Are you working on any interesting projects at present?

JHW:I play regularly with a cosmic country band from London called The Hanging Stars. We’re just about to put out our third record and I’m really excited for people to hear it. I think it’s our best yet.  I also run a Promotions company called Jambalaya Events. We recently put on a concert at an amazing old Victorian music hall here in London with a collection of great songwriters. It was a live tribute concert to the 70s music doc Heartworn Highways which features Townes Van Zandt, Guy Clark and Steve Earle.  The Magic Numbers played, as did Zak Hobbs who’s the grandson of Richard and Linda Thompson. Some other lesser known but no less talented singer-songwriters performed too. It was a very special night and I’m hoping to do a lot more of this kind of thing with this collection of artists in the future.  

DM:The most recent recording projects I have been involved in include the forthcoming album from The Remedy Club which was produced by the legendary Ray Kennedy who was behind so many great country rock and roots albums of the last 20 years. They are a superb duo with top class songs. Another recent project is a new album for The Lost Brothers, coming out next year. I probably can’t say too much about that one just yet but it features a pretty world-class cast of backing musicians and turned out really well! I also recorded some pedal steel lately for the soundtrack of the novel ‘#Zero’ by the journalist and writer Neil McCormick, which was very interesting.

The beauty about the instrument seems to be that the players appear to be as much in demand in their sixties as their twenties! Musically, where do you see yourself and the instrument a few decades down the road? More of the same or crossing into new musical genres?

JHW:Oh God. I don’t know. All I want is to still be enjoying playing the instrument. Still be enjoying recording and putting on gigs. Feeling the connection with people I play music with. Experimenting. Still discovering new things. As long as I’m doing those things, I know I’ll be happy. Anything else that comes along will be a bonus.

DM:Crossing into different genres is where I’m most interested in going. It can be challenging given that the sound of the instrument is synonymous with America and its various landscapes - conjuring up imagery of expansive deserts and dusty plains etc. It’s also not a very rhythmic instrument as such and so it will always play more of a textural and melodic role in that regard. At the same time, I think it’s easy to fall into the trap of playing the instrument as opposed to playing music. I look towards artists like The Gloaming or The Unthanks who prove that with the right ingredients you can take ancient forms of music and traditional instruments and present them in a manner that is wholly fresh and reinvigorated. I’m keen to create new music featuring pedal steel with that kind of spirit and present it in a new light. We’ll see what happens!

Interview by Declan Culliton

Terry Klein Interview

Confession time first. Up to three weeks ago Texan singer songwriter Terry Klein was unknown to us at Lonesome Highway. His second recorded CD, simply titled Tex, arrived at HQ for review some weeks back and caught my immediate attention on the outstanding opening track, Sagamore Bridge. On further investigation it came as no surprise to find lavish praise being directed at Klein by both Rodney Crowell and Mary Gauthier. The album is a story book full of tales that instantly capture the imagination, with lyrics at times uplifting and joyous and on occasions as painful as an open wound.
Lonesome Highway chatted with Klein about the album, his influences and more.

You are described as a ‘recovering lawyer’. I’m reminded of a classic quote from a former Police Officer and Attorney. ‘’ I’d prefer to stand on a street corner in a short dress waving at cars than practice law again’’. Does this ring a bell with you?

It rings lots of bells. Practicing law wasn't for me. And there's some honour, at least, in standing on a street corner in a short dress!

Was the musical career always an ambition for you or how did it come about?

It was an ambition when I was very young, until I was about twenty. Then I left it behind and practiced law for fifteen years. I started falling in love with country and folk and singer-songwriter music starting around 2011. And in November of 2013 I wrote my first song. From there I wrote lots of bad songs - one or two or three a week - until about the middle of 2015. But I have to say, almost from the instant I wrote that first bad song, I was saying to myself, that's what I wanted to be spending my time doing. Thank goodness I didn't end being horrible at it.  

Were you an admirer of the classic Texan songwriters growing up?

Interestingly, no. My tastes growing up were reliably boring and/or based on a surplus of adolescent testosterone: Van Halen, Hendrix, Zeppelin, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the Beatles, U2, Sting, the Police.

What was your musical history either as a punter or performer prior to recording your debut album Great Northern in 2017?

Well, first of all, I was in a thrash funk/heavy metal band in Los Angeles in the early 1990s. We were pretty good, too. We played at places like the Whiskey A Go Go and The Troubadour. That band fell apart and I didn't play music for people hardly at all until about five years ago. I played my first open mic in Boson in the summer of 2014 and then kept popping into open mics intermittently until the beginning of 2016, when I really jumped in with two feet. I played three to five open mics a week in Boston from January to June of 2016. Then we moved to Austin and I started getting gigs pretty quickly, which was immensely gratifying. When you start playing gigs, people ask if you have anything recorded. It's embarrassing; I didn't have some massive creative vision associated with the first record. I just wanted to be able to say "yes" when people asked me if I had an album or was on Spotify.

That album got some notice from some serious hard hitters such as Rodney Crowell and Mary Gauthier. How satisfying and confidence boosting were those acknowledgments?

Both Rodney and Mary nurture songwriters who they think have promise. To be in that category still means a lot to me.

I believe you attended one of Mary Gauthiers song writing workshops in Nashville?

I did. It was one of the most meaningful experiences I've ever had in my life. Anyone who wants to write songs that mean something needs to do a workshop with Mary. Scrimp, save, borrow, steal. Whatever it takes. Just go. 

How structured and disciplined are you as a writer. Can you work nine to five or do you wait for a storyline or lyric to come from left of centre?

I'm pretty disciplined when I'm in writing mode. I take the Flannery O'Connor approach. I try to write, or revise, or stare out the window wondering why I haven't written anything good for what feels like forever, for three hours in the morning, from about 9 until about noon. Real life gets in the way of that from time to time. But when I'm in that rhythm, after about a month or so of writing things I think are good, I'll start writing things that are actually good. Writing good songs takes time. Writing good anything takes time. 

Are personal experiences a springboard for your writing?

One hundred percent yes. But I borrow liberally from the experiences of people I know and love or who fascinate me. 

You have the capacity to pack the maximum backcloth with the minimum amount of words. Do I detect a voracious reader or simply a vivid imagination? If you are a reader, what authors impress you?

I read a lot. I think that's an indispensable important part of being a good writer. My favourites are Dickens, Hemingway, Willa Cather, Edit Wharton, Flannery O'Connor, Vonnegut and David Foster Wallace.

Moving to your current album Tex, which is hitting the Lonesome Highway sweet spot. You have again worked with Walt Wilkins, who produced the album. How did you hook up with him and get him on board giving that he seems to be continually in motion?

I met Walt at a songwriting retreat hosted by Kevin Welch in October 2015. We connected right away and kept in close touch. Like Rodney and Mary, Walt doesn't let his insane schedule get in the way of nurturing writers and artists he believes in. When he offered to produce the record, I was shocked, flattered, excited, scared to death. Working with him and Ron Flynt, who engineered both records, felt easy. All they ask is that you come in ready to work. By the second record, it was like the three of us had one brain. I'd hear something and before I could even say anything about it, Walt would say "did you hear that?" I feel immensely fortunate that Walt and Ron are in my life, both as friends and as artistic collaborators. 

The song writing on the album often deals with real life and every day issues, ones that are often swept under the carpet. The opening track Sagamore Bridge is particularly insightful, the privileged and the bare survivors living side by side in a parallel universe. Where did the story line come from?

I lived in Boston from 2000 to 2016 so I spent quite a bit of time on Cape Cod in the summers. There are three verses in the song and each verse has two parts, so six total parts. And each of those six parts is pulled from real life, real experiences I've had along the way. It sure has been interesting to me how that song has resonated with people all over the world who have never set foot on the Cape. 

There’s a lifetime and more of personal experiences on Tex. Should we envisage Terry Klein in some of the landscapes?

No! The power of a good song is that when you use the first-person pronoun, the listener envisions him- or herself in the landscape. I'm boring. I want people to picture themselves.

The family, in various forms, get a lot of coverage in the songs. The wayward and drifting son returning to his mother’s funeral in Oklahoma is compelling. Daddy’s Store features the pull between emotional family attachment and the draw to let go and leave the nest. Which of the brother will be most fulfilled and will both have regrets as time marches on?

Well, to be alive is to feel regret. But goodness, I hope both of those guys experience some fulfilment after the song ends. In Oklahoma, I hope the narrator gets to his dad's house and they sit and have a beer or a glass of whiskey together and laugh a little and maybe cry a little and miss the person they've lost. I hope that's what happens. In Daddy's Store, I hope the narrator at some point perceives the fact that he's imposed this obligation upon himself, that what his dad wants more than the store staying in the family is for his son to lead a happy, fulfilled (that word again) life. I actually feel like there's less of a chance of that than there's a chance that the narrator in Oklahoma finds his way back to the living. I'm not sure why. 

Too Blue To Get That Far is a difficult listen, laced with despair and regret. Was it a difficult song to compose or do you detach yourself from the subject matter?

It was one of the easiest songs to write that I've written. It just poured out of me. Sharing it with people I love, well, that was the hard part. And they don't like it when I play it. But I sure do hope that it makes folks out there who struggle with depression feel a tiny, little bit less alone. I've had a lot of people ask me "are you okay?" And I am. I have good days and bad days. We all do. 

I sense a love of the blues and jazz on your part in patches of the album. The closing track Steady Rain has a jazzy crossover feel to it?

Yes! For a little while after the heavy metal band broke up, I studied jazz in New York. I practiced 7 hours a day and all of that. But you know that song really owes a debt to the Beastie Boys. There's a song on their record Check Your Head called "Something's Got To Give" that was what I heard in my head when I wrote it. What's crazy is that I didn't even have to tell that to the players on the song, Bart De Win (keys), Bill Small (bass), and John Chapman (drums). The groove was self-evident, I guess.

The haunting sound of a pedal steel guitar is the perfect accessory to semi spoken lyrics. Kim Deschamps, who has played with the best, contributes steel to five tracks on the album. Tell me what he brought to the table. I get a sense of ‘less is more’ with his input, which is most affecting?

I love Kim. I love him as a person and as a player. He played on both records and we've played shows together, too. He's a compassionate, conscientious musician. The song comes first. He's not sitting there champing at the bit waiting for a chance to play a solo. He's listening to the lyrical content and the melody and he's adding textures that draw out the song's emotional content. On "Oklahoma", it's grief. On "Straw Hat" it's jubilation. On "Daddy's Store", it's wistfulness. I love steel guitar so much. Sometimes I wonder if I write the songs I do just so I can have a steel player play along with me. 

The albums out there and getting positive feedback. Is it practical for you to tour the album with a band or do you intend performing the material from it solo?

This is a tough, tough business. I love playing with a band and I do it a handful of times a year in Austin. But when I tour, I do it solo. Now, I just played a week of dates in Holland and Bart De Win lives there and he played with me. Playing with Bart is what I imagine it'd feel like to drive an extremely, extremely fast car. I'm glad we rehearse just so I'm emotionally prepared to be blown away during the show. Playing with Kim is the same way.

Are there sufficient opportunities to promote it in Texas or do you intend heading farther afield?

I just did three weeks in the UK and Europe and I get up to the Northeast (Boston, New York, DC) two to three times a year. And I try to work in one or two other regions a year. But I do love playing in Texas. The venues here, especially the dance halls and the older bars and taverns, there's just some magic in the walls. And if I could live my dream of fronting a pure, old school honky tonk band, I could make a wonderful living and never have to leave the state. But alas. That'll have to wait until I'm done writing the songs I'm meant to write.  

Interview by Declan Culliton

SAM OUTLAW INTERVIEW

You have recently moved from Los Angeles to Nashville. How has that affected your musical direction and your family life?

Compared to Los Angeles, Nashville is a much more affordable city in which to raise a family, so that’s been really nice. We were able to buy a house and it’s already starting to feel like home. Not sure my time here has affected my creative juices too much yet but we’ll see where it takes me.

Did you feel that Nashville was a better base to work from?

Yes! Touring out of Nashville puts you within reach of several more markets compared to LA. Plus I’ve finally started doing co-writes with other writers and that’s largely thanks to me being based in Nashville.

The new EP of three new songs and three audio skits seems to work well and suggest a another dimension to the way the song are presented. Was that the intention?

The Hat Acts EP became this strange little ‘concept' record but the songs didn’t start with that intention. The idea to record the skits popped into my head after the songs were recorded. I envisioned a storyline that would tie together the three songs then wrote and recorded the skits.

Can you tell me a little about the production details and what was involved with the performances?

I co-produced the songs with Kelly Winrich (Delta Spirit). Two of the songs and the skits were recorded in Southern California. The final song “Humility” was recorded in Nashville. My friend Molly Parden is the female voice that appears in the first two skits and Kelly is the voice of the Uber driver in the final skit. The voice of the street heckler is actually me, so I’m literally putting myself down in that one. Haha.

Is Hat Acts an interim download release prior to a new album? Will you end up putting these songs on a physical release or have you other plans?

Not sure yet! 
Have you come to terms with the different means of releasing product these days between download, CD and Vinyl? Have a preference?

I think my preference is to record and release single songs and short albums. I’m also pretty sure that releasing single songs is more in-line with how people are listening to music these days. Recording a song or two or three at a time gives me a chance to better focus on the songs and create artwork that compliments the music. 

Do you think that the slight move back towards a more traditional sound will help you reach a wider audience?

Hmmm… No idea. But I’m pretty sure that a traditional sound is not what most country music fans are looking for these days. Haha. Either way, a lot of the new music I’m writing is more of what’s considered “pop” and “rock”. So we’ll see if the fans who like the traditional sounding songs will hang in there for the new stuff. 

You have been making steady inroads into the UK and that seems to be paying off. Why do you think more artist don’t look to Europe more often?

I’ve been very lucky to work with a fantastic booking agent in the UK. Paul Fenn at Asgard has been instrumental in the growth we’re seeing overseas. Thanks Paul!

How do the economics of touring effect you? There seems to be a need to make arrangements to play solo, duo or as a full band depending on the size of venue and the subsequent fee.

Money plays a crucial role in every aspect of being a performing musician. If the money doesn’t make sense the tour isn’t going to happen.

What are your favourite aspects of being an artist? Do you feel more at home on stage or in the studio?

The studio is definitely my happy place. And while I absolutely love performing, every touring musician knows that the nightly performance is just a fraction of what takes up your time while on the road. Over 90% of touring is NOT performing. And most of it is pretty taxing.

Love Is On A Roll the most recent single was a cover of as Don Williams song. Was that a particular favourite?

Yes - that’s been a favorite of mine that I’ve been covering at shows for years so it made sense to finally record it. The song was co-written by John Prine. 

The sound of the production is different to Hat Acts but equally suited to your voice. It has a little Jimmy Buffet in there. Do you try and suit a particular sound to an individual sound especially for a single?

The original Don Williams recording features an electric guitar mimicking the sound of a steel drum. We took it one step further by having a pedal steel mimic that sound. I think it makes for a cool effect and definitely gets us at least to the city limits of Margaritaville. 

Does the title Hat Acts refer to an ears when pretty much any new act deemed country was know (sometimes cynically) as a Hat Act? Of course nowadays your upcoming “country” act is likely to ear a backward baseball hat and dress like a hip-hop artist.

Hat Acts is a riff on the 80s term for what was then the “new” breed of trad country artists. I’d consider myself a “hat act” since I’m not a cowboy. I don’t typically wear a western hat these days unless I’m on stage. The hat is for style.

In one of the between track scenarios the character likes hip-hop and real deal country. Is that true for you too?

Oh yes. I probably listen to more hip hop, rap and pop music these days than any other genre. But god knows I love country music too.

Do you write from a character stance or do you look to your own experiences for new songs?

It’s almost always a mix. I grab some stuff from my own experience, the experiences of others, and fantasy. 

You seem to like the opportunity to play with image in your cover or press photography. Is that another aspect of the process you enjoy?

Any chance to create something - whether it’s music or photography or art or video - all of these things are important to me. I love creating the stuff that surrounds the song as much as I love creating the song. And I only wish I had more money to make all my dreams a reality. 

You haven’t managed to make it to Ireland so far have you any plans to try to tour here?

I KNOW. I can’t believe I haven’t played Ireland. And I honestly have no idea why this hasn’t happened yet. But I promise you it will happen. And hopefully before too long.

Interview by Stephen Rapid

J.D. Wilkes interview

There are a number of live performances that stand out vividly for me one would be The Clash in Trinity College. Another would be The Legendary Shack Shakers in Paris Texas in Kilkenny at the Rhythm and Roots Festival. Both were hi-energy visceral performances and both Joe Strummer and JD Wilkes were compelling and vital frontmen. Since that time I have been a fan of Wilkes and his various musical endeavours as well as his writing and illustrations. After his recent solo appearance in Dublin Lonesome Highway asked him a number of questions which he graciously answered.

You have led the Shack Shakers since their inception. How has your vision for the band changed since then?

I reckon at first I just wanted a jump blues band to play in, one with a group of “brothers” who’d go tour with me. But it wasn’t long before we were switching genres to Western swing and losing a couple members to marriage and babies. The genre changes and old band members are now too myriad to number. But I’ve always just gone with the flow and let things unfold naturally as I go. I satisfy my musical ADHD and see who wants to join me next.

How deeply was that vision routed in the myths, legends and hillbilly and blues music of the South.

I’ve been writing about “local color” since the get-go. In our first demo, there was a local tavern, a cockfight club, some regional superstitions, etc. But I delved into the myths and legends more right around Cockadoodledon’t.

A lot of musicians have passed through the ranks. Does that allow you to bring something new to each edition of the band as every musician is different?

Yes. I cater the band’s sound to highlight their strengths.

This also brings ups the question of how the music industry has changed since you began performing and recording?

The major label opportunities went away right around the birth of Napster. Downloads killed everything. Fans bragging to my face about how they bootlegged my music online was particularly annoying. They acted like I should high-five them. Bands at our level went from hoping to make a living selling our music to resigning to the fact that we’re more in the T-shirt business. T-shirts and helping the bar sell beer.

Was there a particular place or time that you felt that you were achieving what you had set out to do?

I have never set out to achieve any goal. I’ve never even set goals for myself. I just shuck and jive (improvise) in the moment and then see what happens. Then I shuck and jive in the moment that follows that. Et cetera. Are these questions meant to shame and depress me, ha?!

In recent times you have worked solo. Is that something you have come to love?

I do enjoy it actually. It’s taken a long time to figure out how to pull it all off. I’m still learning though.

You seem to be perfecting your banjo playing and harmonica skills all the time. Do you practice a lot?

I play banjo at home but I wouldn’t call it “practice”. I’m not trying to be an amazing musician. They’re simply tools to get the tunes across. I like playing harmonica too, but it comes more natural. I can play pretty much anything I can think in the moment. Both instruments provide me a decent bit of therapy. But I’m not out to have them play ME.

You mentioned Lee Sexton and some of the old school blues players. How has their advice helped you?

I enjoyed learning a two-finger picking style that was older than Bluegrass. Lee learned to play banjo before Bluegrass music was even invented. That I could sit down with a living time capsule like that is absolutely priceless.

The Dirt Daubers seems to be positioned to a degree between the acoustic solo direction and something more band orientated. What that the intention?

To make the ex-wife happy.

What are the immediate plans for the Shack Shakers at this stage?

Carry out our current European tour and then hit the studio next month to record our new album for Alternative Tentacles. It’ll be a straight, traditional country record for a change. Nothing weird or art-damaged about it. What’s weird about the next LSS album is that it WON’T be weird.

Given that the intention is that the Shack Shakers album will more of a straight county album what’s your opinion of what’s happening in the mainstream country and alternative Americana right now?

I’d rather listen to terrible pop country music than Americana. At least the lyrics are often funny and aren’t so up it’s own ass with seriousness. But both genres bore me really. I’d much rather listen to old dead hillbillies and bluesmen than anything today. Everything in Americana seems fake, like coffee shop cowboys writing shitty poetry with no real danger or meat in their music. All hat, no cattle

Given the number of players you have been involved with do have you a favourite line-up?

My current line-up is my favorite line-up. And I’m not saying that because I have to. Fuller Condon, Preston Corn and Gary Siperko are super cool, easy-going dudes who so happen to be some of the greatest musicians who’ve ever graced this band. If not THE best.
Is songwriting something you enjoy and find easy. Or is it more difficult?

It’s always seemed pretty easy because I’ve never set out to write a “hit”. I write about only what I’m interested in, but I’ll try to make it catchy of course. I think if I started writing about what people actually want to hear (maybe “ass”?) then I could have some financial success. Screw that, ha!

What influences do you call upon when you write?

Broadsheet ballads. Old sayings. Guys like Shane McGowan and Tom Waits. Regional references like what they use. Melodies from dreams or even some phrases from dreams. Any and all things can be sources of influence.

You have written a number of books. The most interesting and unique is The Vine That Ate The South. It seems to read, to a degree, as an extension of some of your lyrical themes and is a rewarding and interesting read. Was that a lot different from lyric writing?

It’s basically one long song in a way. I wrote it with all the same influences I just listed above. So no, there actually isn’t a whole lot of difference between the book and my lyricism. They both flow in similar rhythms and patterns, tackle the same subject matter. In fact I think that if I hadn’t had 20 years of songwriting experience, I might not have ever attempted the novel.

Are you writing any more prose at the moment?

I’m currently working on a sequel to Vine, plus a new alphabet book called The ABCs of the Southern Idiot Man-Child.

You also directed the film Seven Signs. Was that a positive and rewarding experience and is that something you want to do again?

It was fun to film, taxing to have edited remotely while I toured, disappointing to have never gotten it distributed, but still a positive experience overall. Yes, I would like to delve back into filmmaking, but this time I think I’d like to make funny short films instead.

In Seven Signs two of the featured bands were The Pine Hill Haints and Slim Cessna's Auto Club both bands you admire. They both seem to have a pentecostal/religious background. Was your upbringing similar? 

My upbringing was at first catholic and then Protestant/baptist. I did attend a charismatic church school in the 1980s though. That’s akin to Pentecostal, but without the super strict dress code.

Does religion in any form play a part in your day to day life?

It is imprinted in my world view but I don’t endlessly bemoan this in cliche like others do. I think it went like this: Nature, being dangerous, mysterious and feral, needed something to tame and explain it. Religion explained and tamed the beast within, technology eventually tamed the beast without. Then, fairly recently, technology supplanted its helper, religion by giving more accurate explanations. Now we have godlike technology yet no unifying mythologies that, though technically “disproven”, still served to lend a common social code and customs. 

So then we have Hollywood and Academe invent us up new ones. So they give us “political correctness” so we have an updated moral compass. But I wager that this hollow philosophy, invented by posh, educated fools, will ultimately fall victim to pesky ol’ Nature, as PC takes into account nothing of Darwin’s reality or world history. It’ll be our undoing.

Then as a renaissance man you are also an illustrator and painter. Do you need to pursue all these different things to satisfy your creative muse or are you just something of a restless soul?

I just get obsessed with certain subjects and I enjoy the cathartic act of, say, cross-hatching some drawing for a project on that subject. The joy comes in exploring the subject, drawing it down and then seeing the whole product come to completion. To then hold it in my hands.

Of all of these creative pursuits may stem from the one source - The South and an examination of its real culture. Are they other areas of interest that you could mine?

I like medieval saints and martyrs, reliquaries and symbols. Anything mysterious with ornate trappings. Mysticism draws my eye in all its forms and accoutrements, not just southern kind either.

How much to personal relationships feature in your work?

Usually none except for the last two main album releases. But they’re both post-divorce, so that’s understandable.

Did the lifestyle of a working musician have a detrimental effect on your marriage as you were together all the time during your relationship?

Nowadays anything at all can strain a marriage, no matter what ya do. You could wake up one day with bad breath the same moment she’s getting a “heart eyes” emoji from some hunk on Instagram. Annnnnnd … Marriage over.

The selfish disinterest in keeping your vows is what kills marriage. But then again, in our post-modern age of comfort and plenty, marriage is practically recreational anymore. Not the stuff of species survival as it was a hundred years ago. 

What does the future hold for JD Wilkes?

Beats me. But I’ll be shucking and jiving the whole way there!

Have you sensed any particular changes in attitude in your travels in terms political and non-political outlooks?

If the implication is that: as a “Christian American” from the south, has traveling the world woken me up out of all my racist notions that, by god, you KNOW I MUST possess as a southern white male ... then no, I never had those notions and if anything I have always loved art and culture and travel because my parents didn’t raise trash. But I HAVE retained and even grown in my god-given discernment and cynicism ever since traveling the world. I even have had many of my more satiristic observations, from my comics, say, quite confirmed more so over the years. 

Interview by Stephen Rapid